Hello everyone. My name is Jay, and I'm new to theosophy. Sorta.

I've only been recently exposed to theosophy as an established school of thought, but I've been developing theosophical concepts on my own since I was like 12. My parents are nonpracticing Christans, one catholic and one pentacostal. Other than baptisms, weddings, and funerals I was never exposed to religion. I was raised to believe in the existence of God though. I guess being raised to believe in God but not being exposed to any particular religion was fertile ground for theosophical flowers to blossom. Lacking a religion under whos banner i could stand, I set out on a search for God at 12. I started by going to a catholic church once or twice with my sister who started down that path with her boyfriend, now husband, who was raise a practicing catholic. I wasn't particularly thrilled with the seemingly pointless formalities, and faux authority of the Catholic church.

I went onward to study protestantism and the baptist churches, and at that point around the age of 14 I desided Christianity wasn't for me. I began to doubt God and became an athiest for all but 6 months. That wasn't for me either. 10th grade history reignited my interest in religion, but this time in eastern religion, Judaism, Islam, and ancient religions an mysticism. I took my sweet time with Buddhism. I liked it, but still I was turned off by some aspects. Its at this point where i was exposed to reincarnation and karma etc. At 17 I started preaching my own take on God, and while i was mildly sucessful, even with older people, I wasn't satisfied with it. It felt wrong to me. Like I was being dishonest. At this point a couple of important things happened. I came to accept fraternity, unity, oneness of all things, and also i formed a belief that all people come to understand certain things about God in their own time, and that spiritual imperialism, was an abhorant practice that threw people off of their own personal journey.

With spirituality always in mind my attention was diverted away from spiritual studies and I was caught up in the more material matters of life. At 20 I began delving into the occult, first through divination, and then down down down the rabbit hole. Alchemy, modern paganism. Quabalah. That expanded my understanding of spirituality exponentially. I also had a brief affair with universal unitarianism but again I got caught up in the physical aspects of life until recently. I just turned 24 and now I think I may have discovered a society of like minded people. I've just begun reading a text at the TS online library, and though its some times difficult to follow because its so intracate and complex i think, at the very least, I've discovered the next rung on the ladder of my spiritual journey. I can't pretend to know wether this is where I'm ment to be or just a temporary sactuary, because my attention and tastes are fickle and i have no tolerance for what i feel is wrong or out of place, but I eagerly await times verdict.

Hi Jay, welcome to the forum.

Several times in your post, you said that you had begun building a world view based on your given area of study at the time, but then found it unsatisfying so then you tore the world view down and began again.

You reminded me of these words from Col. Bowen, a student of HPBs, describing her description of jnana yoga..

Hi, Jay, and welcome to the Forum.

You said,

"...I've been developing theosophical concepts on my own since I was like 12."

--> Wow, we have something in common. I, too, was first exposed to Theosophy when I was 12. At first, I thought it was totally bogus. However, by the time I was 15, it made a lot of sense to me.

"I wasn't particularly thrilled with the seemingly pointless formalities, and faux authority of the Catholic church."

--> As a matter of fact, just this morning, I was thinking about the need some people have, to give praise to a deity. I suppose if they need to or want to, that is OK. But I have no such need.

"I came to accept fraternity, unity, oneness of all things, and also i formed a belief that all people come to understand certain things about God in their own time, and that spiritual imperialism, was an abhorant practice that threw people off of their own personal journey."

--> So far, you have described Theosophy perfectly.

"...down down down the rabbit hole."

--> I spent decades searching for something that worked for me. Like you, I never "settled for" one iota of nonsense in my religious beliefs.

"I've just begun reading a text at the TS online library, and though its some times difficult to follow because its so intracate and complex i think, at the very least, I've discovered the next rung on the ladder of my spiritual journey."

--> Theosophy is the most complicated philosophy I have ever seen. Hang in there, keep studying, and keep asking questions. I have confidence you will find a lot of ideas in Theosophy that will fit into your private belief system.

By the way, you will find that us Theosophists are very quick at picking up nonsense that people put forth. Please be ready to have us question everything to say. And, we expect the same from you. I find the whole idea quite exciting. We are shooting for the moon, and we invite you to join us. You will not find any other group of philosophers who are so open and frank about what they think is really happening in the universe. The discussions may seem too challenging at times, but I would not have it any other way. (Would you...?)

"I can't pretend to know whether this is where I'm meant to be or just a temporary sactuary, because my attention and tastes are fickle and i have no tolerance for what i feel is wrong or out of place, but I eagerly await times verdict."

--> Again, you have described the exact frame of mind that Theosophy encourages. Enjoy the ride. Hang on!

I'm always ready to defend my position and willing to concede my position if some new viable position is offered.

No, I would not want it any other way. There are areas of thought with room for pandering, half truths and double talk. Spirituality in my opinion is not one of them.

Jay,

I want to make one more point. Theosophy is nothing more than a collection of thousands and thousands of concepts. Theosophy only asks you to take a look at these concepts, and see if some of them fit into your belief system. Or all of them fit. Or none of them fit. Theosophy only asks that you consider these ideas, one at a time.

alright cool. So then it is what i thought it was. I was confused by what I was seeing here vs. what I had read about theosophy. Now I understand that there is a sort of overlying understanding that its all speculative. I'm not sure thats exactly the right word, but thats the closest that comes to mind.

Jay,

I thought it might be fun to run some of the basic Theosophical concepts by you, and see what you think. What do you think of the idea of reincarnation?

Sounds like fun. I'm game

"Reincarnation

Belief that after a person dies, he returns again to the earth, inhabits a new body, and does this as many times as needed to acheive spiritual perfection. "

Thats a quick web definition I found. I've always leaned more toward the belief that our "energies" returns to oneness when we die. The physical body returns to the earth and the spirit returns to the cosmos. Wether or not the consciousness is retained depends on the "soul". Some just disipate, others go on but retain consciousness, others remain conscious and active on earth. In my current belief system, The first outcome is THE BIG OUT. The second group is the most populated. Among the last group, are ghosts and certain peoples who reincarnate. Souls with explicit purpose and drive.

So IMHO reincarnation happens but its not the standard or norm. If your "immortal soul" has a reason to take a physical form it will. I don't think I buy into the whole enlightenment angle. I think its there for those who are compelled toward it, but its by no means mandatory.

I am curious. What part of the enlightenment angle do you not buy into?

the idea that its some kinda metaphysical checkered flag that drops when we finish meeting some kinda cosmic standard. I'm just not expanded to a point where i can except a lot of overly thought out new age funny business. Most of my belief system focuses on the flesh, theres not a lot of focus on what was before, and what is to come, and certainly not on intangable impercievables. I find it to be destracting from my journey. Like a detour through a scenic route, instead of staying on the high way. See nice and interesting things, but my physical body only has so much time.

Jay,

Do you think we will reincarnate in human bodies forever?

It depends on the nature of the "soul". I also think human can reincarnate as animals if it suits the purposes of the "soul". But also there are the other possibilities I outlined in an above post.

In life people are driven towards their own ends, and i think the soul or whatever you guys call it life force, essence, whatever, I think its driven toward its own end as well. Maybe its divine wisdom, maybe two for one smoothies at Orange Julius. Maybe got another purpose that is beyond human comprehension at this stage in our existance.

Our physical bodies have many complexities that make us unique as individuals even though we are all really one, even on a physical level. So I think its possible the soul is equally as invididualistic while still being in the oneness, unless it opts for the big out for whatever reason.

Jay,

That is an interesting way of looking at it. By the way, I just thought I would compare your idea to Theosophy's idea.

Theosophy sees Enlightenment as our goal in life. As a matter of fact, Theosophy exists mainly for one goal — to help us accelerate our progress towards Enlightenment.

I believe that Theosophy teaches that there is a constant progression in all forms in life waves to an ideal, to be reached just before a pralaya, at the end of the seventh round on the seventh globe. In the human kingdom, once manas is awakened, this progress (evolution if you will, but not simply in the Darwinian sense) is self directed, and the ideal might be identic to Adam-Kadmon.

Enlightenment might be a stage in that progress, but I think there will be many further stages in rounds and globes to come.

I agree that the Theosophical teachings are meant as an aid to humanity in its current stage, towards the next, which might be called Enlightenment.

IMHO

Jon,

You are correct. I left out a great deal of the story. A big part of Theosophy is for us to understand all forms of consciousness, at all levels of spiritual evolution.

Jay,

I did want to make one point. Fortunately, you and I have agreed to disagree on the idea of Enlightenment. To me, it is a definite goal to work towards. To you, it is more of a catch-all phrase for a lot of different New Age ideas.

Agree to Disagree

It is important to note that Theosophy encourages people to agree to disagree. No one person in Theosophy has the right to tell someone else what to believe. Yes, it is an actual rule. In one way, teaching people to agree to disagree is just as important a Theosophical concept as anything else.

Let's see what we have in common. Let's celebrate our differences. This is what brotherhood is all about.

I walk my own very distinct path and have learned to agree to disagree with pretty much everyone.

Welcome. I hope you take your time in your studies. The one thing about Theosophy is it does find you, you find it. It does not preach but asks you to draw your own conclusions and see what feels right to you. I am sure you will enjoy your time here.