Quabalah
http://www.workofthechariot.com is an interesting interfaith Quabalah site that has some Trees of Life based on Revelation's '7 seals' so the trees are more like the chakra system. It has much other interesting topics also, in a book that can be downloaded, though one chapter has no link--you can type its number in an obvious pdf name in a URL to download it.

Other Quabalah-related sites are http://www.essene.com/ and http://www.thenazarenway.com, some of the only interfaith Essene sites that have many good translations of texts including of other religions.

General Spiritual
http://www.energyreality.com/ is a site by a Theosophy-influenced (also by Agni Yoga, Arcane School, Lucille Cedercrans) psychic healer who has great descriptions of the planes and principles of/in humanity.

http://www.spiritweb.com/ was an interesting site (still available in http://www.archive.org/) that may have been spirit[ual]ist because it had much channeling info, but they have many other spiritual texts, FAQs, art. http://www.spiritweb.us/ is trying to replace it.

http://www.agniyoga.org/ is a site about the works of Helena Roerich, which seems Theosophy-influenced. It disagrees with some ideas, but there is also some interesting info.

http://www.wisdomimpressions.com/ is a site about the works of Lucille Cedercrans, which is likely in agreement with Theosophy.

Ascended Masters
There were 2 or 3 groups that focused on the Ascended Masters, http://www.tsl.org/ still does (a group some people consider odd or problematic,) but my favourite is http://www.theascendedmasters.com/. It is just an art site but has a link to an interesting book by Murdo MacDonald-Bayne who wrote books like Beyond The Himalayas and The Yoga of The Christ giving accounts of his trip there and to Tibet. One day someone just appeared at the artist's door and gave her the former book, and that person or another also came to her house to specifically ask about her art and spread it.

There are sites in the name of each Mahatma/Chohan mentioned in Theosophy, but not all are Theosophical.

Arcane School or influenced
http://www.lucistrust.org/ is the Arcane School of Alice Bailey & Djwal Khul. Some people consider the teaching anti-Semitic (I am not sure if perhaps only Bailey was or if her [supposed?] recording of DK was corrupted, or if there are just some very odd viewpoints.) Nevertheless, A Treatise on Cosmic Fire has a compilation on The Secret Doctrine's statements about the '7 sacred keys/sciences.'

http://www.shamballaschool.com/ is a site disseminating info that is supposedly the next phase of teaching discussed in Arcane School texts.

http://www.tsgfoundation.org/, http://www.saraydarianinstitute.org/ are sites about Torkom Saraydarian. He was an esoterist who studied much in the East and was influenced by Agni Yoga and the Arcane School.

http://www.uppertriad.org/ is a beginning to medium or maybe advanced difficulty Theosophy-influenced interfaith esoteric site run by some Christians.

http://www.innerlab.com/atmanet/ was an interesting site (still available in http://www.archive.org/) based on Sanatana Dharma, Theosophy, and the Arcane School. Some pages are still at Inner Lab, but the author writes most pages will not be there until he redoes the site.

David,

I want to make a point about the Ascended Masters movement of the early 1900's. Many of their ideas were taken from Theosophy, but many people do not consider such writings to be in the field called Theosophical literature. It is easy to make the assumption that all of the Ascended Masters writings are Theosophical, when, in fact, such an assumption is sometimes wrong.

It all gets back to comparing specific ideas to specific ideas. Feel free to compare any author's ideas to HPB's ideas, including ideas from the Ascended Masters literature.

I like the Seven Heavens, Globes, Spheres, Planes or Grades which include the Shadowy Arc of the Talas and the Luminous Arc of the Lokas. I memorized all the Sepheroth and Paths. I've studied the Gates. As I continue studying Theosophy, I find that I tend toward the former over the latter. Both are worthy of study.

The very concept of the Masters being "ascended" is un-theosophical. These movements say those "Masters" ascended (physically!!) as it is said of Jesuschrist (I wonder where they stopped, and how their physical bodies are feed... many of them being vegetarian they cannot eat passing birds!?)

Pablo,

I was not aware that Ascended means they have physically ascended. Of course, I do not believe such a thing. Thanks for pointing that out.

Very theosophical, indeed!

I tried to follow a very long thread specifically focused on ascension. It went in so many different directions; it took me to the Pali word, Iddhi, and to organic silica, and many other seemingly related materials. I don't understand the purpose of physical ascension. On a higher plane, we would have to manifest in a substantial form appropriate to that plane. I might imagine that an individual successfully reached accord and concord with Atman, to an extent that Atman was able to express through the physical body of an individual, and to the point that each jiva within the human physical body was also in accord with Atman.

If each and every jiva ascended, and remembering that the body would nevertheless manifest on the higher plane according to the appropriate substance, by elevating these jiva's, the individual had affected trillions of jiva's in a very beneficient, noble and exalted manner. A good Karmic condition indeed for the individual.

According to HPB the body is not even a real Principle in our constitution. It is the most illusory of illusions. The concept of physical ascension, I think, is just an expression of a materialistic view and attachment to the body.
By the way, HPB (or maybe the Masters, I don’t recall) said the whole thing of Jesus ascending in his physical body was not true. But I don’t need HPB to say that. To me it is obvious.
That’s the problem with the New Age. Generally speaking, it is only materialistic thought playing with “spiritual” concepts. But the whole philosophy behind the New Age is based on bringing pleasure of the physical personality.

mensagitat,

You said,

"I don't understand the purpose of physical ascension."

--> I do not think it happens, and neither does Pablo.

"On a higher plane, we would have to manifest in a substantial form appropriate to that plane."

--> Correct. For example, a physical object cannot exist on the astral plane. The idea of a physical object existing on a higher plane just does not make sense to a Theosophist.

Each heaven, globe, sphere, world, whichever your preference, has its own intrinsic substance, I think it would be referred to as Mulaprakriti. On this Globe, our physical bodies are substance based on hydrogen. Each atom, perhaps even the constituents of an atom, are not only physical. They have a jiva associated to them. Jiva is the same as Monad. I was suggesting that physical ascension pertained to the jiva of each and every atom in the body, and by ascending, be associated now, with the substance appropriate to the ascension destination. Not the physical matter we are all familiar with on this Globe. Both of you remained on the assertion this physical substance would be ascended to another globe. I quite understand, as Pablo even mentioned that this is what ascensionists are asserting.

Most people have seen Obi Wan Kenobi physically disappear upon the stroke of Darth Vader's Light Sabre. I'm only using a familiar image. On this Globe, substance and force has a particular ratio, on a higher globe the ratio would be different in that force would be higher relative to substance. Perhaps this is a viable postulation. Everything is saved, only different substance/force ratio. If I use a transfomer to step up 120volts @ 15amps to 2100volts, the amperage will only be 8amps. It is a natural and logical outflowing consequent therefrom. :o

I'm a bit confused here and I have some questions.

1. Can someone explain in greater detail just why it is, Theosophically-speaking, that physical ascension is supposed to be impossible? That notion confuses me, as it seems to contradict things such as the Masters appearing before the Founders. One example is described in the latest issue of The Quest, in which a Master appeared (astrally, it must be admitted) before Henry Olcott and left behind a turban. If a turban can be materialized physically, presumably from matter on a higher plane, why could not a physical body leave the physical plane and move to a higher one? I don't understand why this movement between planes should be one-way.

2. I am also not totally informed when it comes to what the "Ascended Masters" movements profess. I haven't seen anything that goes into detail about just what they say happens when a Master ascends. Is there another way we could view such an ascension? Maybe they don't so much take their bodies with them as they transcend their bodies somehow? I could possibly understand why it would be that they could not take the physical atoms with them--but could they not leave those atoms behind?

Any pointers would be appreciated.

It is an interesting topic. If a person is wanting to ascend physically, his form must be of the base ether of whatever higher plane arrived at.

If going down from a height above this plane toward whatever objective is the underlying cause, the astral form would probably be best for a brief visit. Otherwise it would have to happen by our normal manner of child birth. I've had a third concept presented to me, and it is usually due to urgency; the form of an already grown individual is taken. The draw-back is that of having to experience the subjects karma. An individual described as doing just that, ended up enduring a nazi concentration camp for Jews. He barely survived the ordeal. I want to remind that I simply read about this and do not claim it to be true.

'Resurrection' without death sounds like ascension, but those who define 'ascension' often use AAB's teachings which make it clear one must suffer much even through a life they get to like Yeshua in which they do have to die for resurrection--maybe in another life, which could be ascension. OTOH Codex Sinaiticus does not mention resurrection. Anyone know of past initiates/adepts that were resurrected or 'ascended?' Actually, either Enoch or Methuselah or both were said to have ascended, except Prophets before and including Moses are mythic.

Is that something an Adept would do? Undergo an incarnation? If I understand correctly, that would mean taking the risk of being chained to the cycle of karma and reincarnation until one managed to free oneself from it anew. Sometimes I wonder about cases when, after weighing the pros and cons, an Adept would consider that a suitable option. I often think in most cases, it would be better that the Adept remain on the higher planes and operate from there.

You mean a "walk-in?"

What about Elijah?

Also:

I've never heard that theory before, that such Prophets were mythic. Can you elaborate on that, or point to where I could learn about that idea?

A thought just occurred to me:

What about Spontaneous Human Combustion as a means of "ascending"? What I am basically picking up from this line of discussion is that when one completes their human evolution and rises to the level of an Adept, they still have to physically die. Bringing one's physical vehicle along with one seems to be out of the question, and that actually does make sense to me; as humans, we already have astral, mental and causal bodies. So it would seem that in the case of an ascension, it would make more sense for the physical body to be shed.

If spontaneous human combustion is possible (I'm not claiming it's been proven, but to my knowledge it has not been disproven), it could fulfill all the above conditions; the person having attained Mastery, their body combusts, converting into ash rather than coming with the person to a higher plane. Presumably such a person would already have attained the ability to function consciously in the higher vehicles.

Once again, I'm not very familiar with what is specifically claimed by "Ascended Master" groups as an explanation for how the Masters got to where they are. Everything I have read along those lines is actually pretty vague and open to interpretation.

It is detailed in HPB's Secret Doctrine. Moses was based on Sargon, so anyone before him is mythic, probably also for other reasons. Such as, Noah was based on Vaivasvatu Manu (sp?.)

As for Elijah whom you asked about, long after I read the Bible a then-exoterist friend tried to convert me to his beliefs, and when I pointed out how many Prophets' and good Kings lives are examples to us in their mysticism/esoterism in the case of Elijah he said 'Elijah never went to heaven. God cursed him [for saying Elijah was God [or something like that.]]' (he said no one went to heaven but Yeshua.) It is probable Elijah was recorded as ascending, and of course if Yeshua ascended Elijah at least went to heaven since they are the same person. That is another type of ascension--not the kind New Agers nor exoterists (many of which deny ascension and believe in physical ressurection) want that fear death.

That is a complicated question, in that the question of involving oneself in the karma of others can be a great risk in regard to taking upon yourself their karma. That is not the only thing to focus on either, because an individual or nation experiences karma for a reason; to develope and strengthen their will. It is a trial I've only recently become aware of as to how important it is to experience our lives in a way which is skillful; indomitable, dauntless, tireless manner of meeting what life brings without incurring more karma.

And to do that while entering into the karma of others, would be something that a Buddha of Compassion does. I would not even be able to guess how many lives they may have lived in this endeavor, while their own personal evolution is halted.

On page 459 of Isis Unveiled, volume II, there is an explanation concerning Adam, Seth, Enos, Cainan, Mahalaleel, Jared, Enoch, Methusalah, Lamech and Noah. A mention made of the ten biblical patriarches compared with the Hindu Pragapatis and the Sephiroth of the Kabala. I spell the name, prajapatis. A lot of words spelled in the days of H. P. Blavatsky and even G de Purucker, are spelled different today, like connexion now being connection. I don't fully remember what a prajapati is. I know it is a lord, and usually the name is connected to prakriti. Seed and Root Manus, stellar spirits? I suppose I'll look it up again.

Methuselah was known as the oldest, and Enoch walked with god, and after giving birth to children, was took by god.

Maybe it was only Enoch and not Methuselah that ascended then... but look it up if necessary.

Dan,

You said,

"...I'm not very familiar with what is specifically claimed by "Ascended Master" groups as an explanation for how the Masters got to where they are."

--> They claim that their physical bodies have ascended into Heaven. This is the same claim that was made about Jesus, Mary, etc.

Now, let's take a Theosophical look at these ideas. In order to function on the physical plane, we have to have a physical body. In order to function on the astal plane, we have to have an astral body. In order to function in Devachan (the mental plane), we have to have a mental body.

Now, let's consider the idea of 'ascending' one's physical up into Heaven (Devachan). According to Theosophy, that would be impossible. A physical body simply cannot 'exist' in Devachan. This is the claim that is made of the Ascended Masters, and Theosophy says it just does not happen.

OK, now let's look at what really happens (according to Theosophy), and how it got 'twisted around' into the idea of physical bodies ascending into Heaven. When an adept becomes an adept, he becomes able to be conscious in either his mental, astral, or physical body, one at a time — he can jump from one to the other, as if he was simply flipping a switch. The physical and astral bodies become completely subservient to the mental body — an amazing feat that is the eventual goal of every human presently on Earth. This is what actually happens, and it is this confusing event that has become misinterpreted as physical bodies being ascended into Heaven.

"So it would seem that in the case of an ascension, it would make more sense for the physical body to be shed."

--> That is what Theosophy teaches. The thing is, we are dealing here with a very complex state of being, and over the centuries what really happens has become convoluted into the concept of ascension.

Dan,

You said,

"... physical ascension ... seems to contradict things such as the Masters appearing before the Founders. One example is described in the latest issue of The Quest, in which a Master appeared (astrally, it must be admitted) before Henry Olcott and left behind a turban."

--> They may be using a force called Kriyasakti, which is the ability to combine physical atoms into desired forms. In the turban example, I think the Master traveled to Olcott astrally, and then gathered physical atoms around him at that location, and created a temporary physical body. His own permanent physical still lay asleep somewhere in Tibet. Or, as you have pointed out, the master may have merely traveled there astrally, and Olcott was merely viewing the Master's astral body. But the turban was physical matter. (I believe that very turban is on display even today in a Theosophical museum somewhere, perhaps in Adyar.)

"If a turban can be materialized physically, presumably from matter on a higher plane, why could not a physical body leave the physical plane and move to a higher one?"

--> (1) I think it is impossible, (2) I think it is unecessary. A high adept can simply construct a physical body at any location his astral body happens to be in.

There is another way to answer your question. I think some Theosophists may not agree with this, but the way I see it, every physical atom has a corresponding astral atom on the astral plane, and a corresponding mental atom on the mental plane, etc. I do not think a physical atom can exist unless this relationship exists.

Now, let's take it one step further. When a master wishes to 'create' physical matter, he first creates the object on the mental plane from mental atoms by rearranging a group of mental atoms. He does his by merely thinking a thought and creating a thought-form. (I believe this is exactly what we do ever time we think thoughts and create thought-forms.) But a Master can then assemble astral atoms around those mental atoms, then assemble physical atoms around those astral atoms, and create physical objects.

Therefore, a physical object is really an interplay of corresponding physical, astral, and mental atoms. A physical atoms never exists on the astral plane, and an astral atom never exists on the physical plane. Thus, I do not think physical atoms can move from the physical plane to the astral plane, as you have suggested.

"I don't understand why this movement between planes should be one-way."

--> I do not think physical atoms can 'exist' on the astral plane. And they do not need to. I think it is that simple.

I think it is a partly likely idea, but it is more likely a body would just turn to energy. According to Einstein's relativity matter may be able to turn into energy. The adepts consciousness moving to its ethereal or mental body might orbit the atomic particles to lightspeed in a way that all kinetic energies cancelled and the atoms disappeared. I see no reason ash or anything else would or should be produced.

Kundalini-shakti can cause combustion (people that activate it sometimes get burns,) and perhaps since it is a force one person said it can turn the body to energy, though they also think the body might still exist physically. I do not think so. Actually they said it can change one's 'state' from particles to waves, which is transformation to energy unless some particles remain.