Inerrancy of the bible?

The Bible should be regarded as a Guidebook. It is definitely not a book of facts. The teachings are couched in parable. But the Truth is therein to be found by the discerning student.

About the Bible

1. The books of the Bible were written by men inspired by God. However, men are subject to errors and flawed in their understanding of the divine principles and these defects are carried over in their writings. Moreover, the individual writers are themselves situated at different levels in the order of evolution. Their understanding and authority is limited only to such extent.

2. The selection of the books for inclusion in the authorized Bible and the formulation and adoption of the Nicene Creed were conducted under inauspicious circumstances and coercion by Rome. The end result does not exactly conform to the true teachings of Jesus.

3. Further, in the ensuing periods coming into our modern age, there have been massive mistranslations, misrepresentations, corruptions and outright deliberate editing and substitution of the Biblical texts such that the surviving manuscripts may no longer be accurate and true to the spirit of the original writings.

4. There is a hierarchy of the divine teachings. There are different levels of awareness. Different writers and teachers address different levels and aspects of the teachings. Each person should seek out those teachings that are appropriate to his own level of studies, but continue to move forward from there.

5. Jesus already upgraded most all of the objectionable Old Testament teachings. We should now dispense with the old and superseded and embrace the new more rational and enlightened teachings.

Supporting references:

1. From http://www.childpastlives.org/library_arti.../earlybible.htm Authorship of the Bible, everyone should be able to come to his own decision in regard to how much faith he should place in all that are written in the Bible.

2. In regard to the circumstances surrounding the formulation and the adoption of the Nicene Creed, you can look up http://www.childpastlives.org/library_articles/dogma.htm Dogma Bites Man Christianity and Reincarnation. From here, you should obtain to a deeper understanding of how the original true teachings have been changed and subverted.

3. The hierarchy of the divine teachings, different levels of awareness, are discussed in http://www.innerquest.org.ph/articles/iq23...velsoftruth.htm.

4. Many false and superseded teachings embedded in the Bible are listed in http://innerquest1.blogspot.com/2007/04/fa...-teachings.html.

5. Why conflicting influences and resulting misinterpretations of Biblical teachings? The reasons are proposed in http://secrets-of-the-kingdom.blogspot.com...ings-first.html.

6. Instruction is progressive and New Teachings are now made available to those who are ready to take them up. Continuing education and progressive revelations are ongoing in our time. See http://innerquest1.blogspot.com/2007/04/pr...ng-of-lord.html.

Angel,

I am glad to see that you have an interest in religious topics. However, this is a Theosophical Forum, not a General Religion Forum nor a Christian Forum. Can you relate your ideas to Theosophical sources? Can you provide quotes from Theosophical writers that back up your ideas?

I also see that you are giving your ideas, but not asking questions nor engaging in conversation with the other members of this Forum. Please note that this is not a place that will serve as a place for your blogs. Feel free to interact with us, rather than just posting your ideas.

Hello Nick and all,

The Three Objects of the Theosophical Society are:

1. To form a nucleus of the Universal Brotherhood of Humanity, without distinction of race, creed, sex, caste and colour.
2. To encourage the study of Comparative Religion, Philosophy and Science.
3. To investigate unexplained laws of Nature and the powers latent in man.

Are these subjects not part of Theosophical studies? My reading of Objects 2 and 3 is that they are very much so, or should be. Thus, any discussion of related subjects should be allowed and encouraged, even. And this sub-Forum is the place for this because of its title -- Religions, Philosophies etc.

As I have informed you in my application, I studied Theosophy for more than 5 years and am thoroughly familiar with Theosophical principles. But I did not stop there. Neither should anyone else. And I do share your appreciation of Barborka's "The Divine Plan." I regard the book as the more lucid textbook in the study of Theosophy.

However, I believe as Theosophy believes that "There is no religion (or philosophy, not even Theosophy) that is greater than the Truth." And my intention is merely to promote the greater Truth, within and beyond Theosophy. And I am open to discussing with everyone here, although evidently, I do think for myself. I was just waiting for member's comments and queries.

Everyone will have a different interpretation or spin to these principles. And I do humbly respect your opinions and rules inasmuch as you are the owner of this Forum. And I will honor your decisions.

However, any curtailment of free discussions in my opinion constitutes censorship that will effectively abet ignorance and stagnation. HPB advices that there will be other messengers sent periodically to continue and upgrade the work of the Masters. We all should be on the lookout for new and fresh insights into the Teachings.

Let us be reminded that divine instruction is progressive and continuing.

Angel

Hi Angel, Nick really has a problem with Xtianity, so take that into account.

Have you read Yogananda's writings on his esoteric interpretation of the Gospels?

It is expensive but inspiring; there is also an abridgement in one volume.

https://www.srfbooks.com/Item.asp?id=3238

Nicholas, I've read portions of 'The Second Coming of Christ'. However, I am not sure that Jesus existed, as a person in history, anymore.
What I am interested in is the Two Truths. Do you know of what may be the best introduction (for dummies)?
Also, did HPB comment on this subject, or Judge or GdP.

Thanks, Jim b.

HPB & her gurus said there was a real Jesus who lived around 100 bce. I think a footnote or two in her "Esoteric Character of the Gospels" says that.

In SD 1, 48 HPB did say a little on the two truths of Buddhism, but I find it confused, and not helpful.

Buddha taught varied stages of the Two Truths depending on the mind of the student, so there has been much discussion on this subject. One of the simpler ways to look at them is to remember the conventional truth is how we know anything - that is, we think it is inherently existent. The ultimate truth is how everything truly is - empty of inherent existence. So they are subjective and apply to understanding correctly - the vase is empty of inherent existence - thus an ultimate truth. Or misunderstanding - the vase is solidly & independently existent -thus a relative truth.

Hello Nicholas and everyone,

Thank you for your helpful and welcoming comment. Precisely, this is the reason why I post on these subjects -- to help others understand our differences more and resolve and overcome them. To other groups, I post on the subject of Theosophy, instead. Whatever is not known or misunderstood, in my opinion. There is the unity of all religious teachings. Truth is one. Many still are unable to realize this.

On the subject of the Bible, the Facts I listed apply equally to all scriptures of all faiths. There is truth mixed in with tons of garbage. We students must learn to discern which is which among the many propositions. There are corruptions, misinterpretations, lies, falsehoods, half-truths and different hierarchies of teachings that address different levels of students. Theosophical materials are not any different.

With reference to ‘At the Feet of the Master’ in furtherance of our spiritual studies, we should learn to discriminate between the important and the unimportant, between the useful and the useless, and between the true and the false. To these criteria, we must subject all information which form the bases of our studies. In this connection, ‘At the Feet of the Master’ also enjoins us to distinguish between the more useful, those things that relate to the spiritual and the eternal and the less useful which are things that relate purely to the physical or the transient.

Most importantly, the Master gives us this very wise counsel and we quote,

"There are in the world many untrue thoughts, many foolish superstitions and no one who is enslaved by them can make progress. Therefore, you must not hold a thought just because many other people hold it, not because it has been believed for centuries nor because it is written in some book which men think sacred; you must think of the matter for yourself, and judge for yourself whether it is reasonable. He who walks the Path must learn to think for himself, for superstition is one of the greatest evils in the world, one of the fetters from which you must utterly free yourself."

I clicked on your link. Looks good. But still coming from a Hindu standpoint. For those who are open and ready to begin to understand Christ's true message for both laymen and advanced students, we invite you to check out our free study course by visiting:

The Message made plain
A freely downloadable study course on the Teachings of Jesus

Let Christ speak to you in his own words. You might find that you never really knew him before. But here, he refutes and upgrades all the objectionable teachings of the Old Testament, as well as clarify the misconceptions and false teachings of his later followers.

But again, I must emphasize that I do not favor any one religion over another. The Truth is all of them, together. Jesus teaches us that the Truth was not given to any one person or group only but to everyone in part, in proportion to his personal development. In order to access the whole Truth, we must draw from all the sources, all the parts.

While it is a principal source of the new divine teachings, Theosophy, nonetheless, is still just one link in the chain that is the New Age Movement. By all means, do let us study it, but let us not be ignorant of the other teachings or else, our education will not be complete.

Angel

Angel,

I looked at your site and cannot figure out where the teachings are coming from or through. I suppose someone is a channel for ???

No - Theosophy is not "a link" - it is the fount of not only the New Age but all philosophies, sciences & religions. What was brought forth by HPB & her Gurus was just an outline of what The Brotherhood has known for eons.

Yogananda, in that Christ book, sounds like a very devout, mystic Christian, with very little Hindu overlay.

Nicholas and Angel,

No Theosophist has the right to tell another Theosophist what to believe. If you wish to believe that Jesus can take away your sins, I have no right to tell you otherwise.

It seems to me there are two kinds of people in this world, people who think like Christians, and people who think like Buddhists. I believe one of Theosophy's biggest challenges has been to bring the two groups of people together. Not surprisingly, Theosophy has not always been successful. (I think this was the main issue that caused the London Lodge to split in two, when Mrs. Kingford was its president.) I certainly do not think like a Christian, but I hope that I can only help to find a place for Christians in Theosophy. I want Christians to feel welcome in Theosophical discussions, even when I disagree with what they have to say.

It is important for Christian Theosophists to develop the same level of sensitivity. For example, when a Christian makes the statement, "The books of the Bible were written by men inspired by God," there are those Theosophists who take offense at such a statement. If both sides can become aware of how their statements effect each other, then our discussion here will have been a good use of time.

I am fascinated by the idea that I "have a problem" with Christiantiy. I can only say that I feel HPB had the same "problem". For example, I seem to remember her describing the concept of the Blessed Virgin Mary as being pure "heresy". (Does anyone have that quote?) Quite frankly, I agree with HPB (although I think I might have used words that were a little less inflammatory, because I am aware that such a statement is offensive to some Christians.)

Hi Angel,

You say

We have already discussed something like this elsewhere. I think the New Age movement is only a materialistic and hedonist movement. Have you read “The Secret”, for example? They teach you to visualize you having one million dollars. Wow!, very spiritual!!!! The New Age movement believes that happiness is based on possessions, that happiness means to please the personality through all possible means. Nothing more opposite to Theosophy. They try to use every power (so called spiritual by them) with a selfish motive. In many cases, the New Age movement only encourages black magic (read the collection of articles in the little book “Practical Occultism” by HPB).
Theosophy was interpreted in a more limited and personal way by people like Alice Bailey, among others. And then those teachings have fallen even more to become the basis of the New Age.

Everything you need to know about us is in this section:

http://www.innerquest.org.ph/aboutus.htm

Most all schools claim exclusivity and preeminence. But All Truth is much too vast to be completely handled by any one group. Each individual school can only address a part of the whole Truth or "curriculum", so to speak. Other subjects, equally important and required studies, are taken up by other specialized institutions. So we have grade schools, secondary schools and different colleges -- law, medicine, business, education and so on. And particular courses require that we learn many different subjects.

Theosophy takes up the bulk of the technical teachings -- Cosmogenesis and Anthropogenesis. Strong in knowledge and information, the theoretical aspects of the divine teachings, but lacking in the practical applications and practical experiencing. But this is just my opinion. Everyone can think for himself.

Other schools take up the practical components -- the experiences and applications that provide the incontrovertible proofs of the theoretical teachings.

Further, Theosophy as I understand it merely undertakes to prepare applicants for chelahood. Higher studies are to follow after initiation and admission -- Much of which are not to be made available to non-chelas. So yes I agree with you, the materials already available constitute only an outline. More are still to come.

A thousand Christians, a thousand religions. Everyone should study under different teachers, whoever he feels is qualified to teach him what what he needs to learn. We are to learn what we can and move on to learn from other teachers and guides.

Hello Nick and all,

There are many misconceptions and false presumptions held by those who have not really studied what Jesus actually taught. The two you mentioned, Jesus paying for our sins and the teachings concerning Mary, are just two of so many. They have judged without a fair hearing. No one needs to be deceived if he will only take the time and effort to study the matter more deeply. Instead, we should go direct to the actual words and teachings of Jesus and not be misled by the misguided and false interpretations of his followers and students -- the church, the apostles, disciples, popes and elders included. Everyone will eventually come to realize that they are not the same.

http://innerquest1.blogspot.com/2007/04/fa...-teachings.html

I can assure you and everyone that if you find some church doctrines to be objectionable and false, Jesus will likely agree with you. And if really false, you can be sure that he never did teach them.

Thank you for your clarifications. I'm glad that we share the same motivation and concerns.

Angel

Angel,

I saw the link you gave and it (like you) is not responsive to my question.

Theosophy is not the TS, nor is it limited to HPB's teachings.

Nick,

HPB had a "problem" with churchianity & priestcraft, not with the Adept Jesus, nor devout Xtians.

There are no "rights" innate or otherwise, in my view. So we are free to act or not act, as we choose. But we do have duties to tread lightly at times with our words & at other times give "the lion's roar". I often choose wrongly my words, so I apologize to all who are bothered by them.

Here is HPB outlining her attitude to Xtianity, from Isis Unveiled, preface to vol.2:

Hi Pablo,

You are absolutely correct in your observations.

However, as in any school, we begin with simple basics. From there as foundation, we build in order to begin to understand higher and more involved concepts. No one advances to the spiritual without passing the physical/material, the worldly phase of our education.

The New Age provides instruction to all levels of students. So to the unevolved, the lessons are less of the spiritual. We advance in step by step progressions. Basic arithmetic before algebra or physics. Words, grammar and sentence construction before we can write novels.

Divine instruction is progressive and continuing. To the advanced students, however, advanced studies are administered.

Angel

Hello Nicholas,

Sorry. I have no short answer to your question. So instead, I provided the link that links to other files in the section.

There are just too many other concepts and principles involved that are not taken up in Theosophy and which you may not be familiar with or cannot agree with, at this time. Anything short of the complete presentation will not satisfy you.

Re: Theosophy not the TS, I agree.

Angel

Hi Angel,

Well, I'm not sure that analogy can be applied to New Age/Theosophy relationship. Arithmetic and algebra or physics don't contradict each other. The direction is all important, not only the ideas. As Idries Shah (the Sufi teacher) said once, to promote the same ideas does not necessarily mean that you are promoting the same message.
The direction of the New Age is towards the personal, just like any other materialistic philosophy. And as Krishnamurti would say: "The first step is the last step". In other words, you cannot reach the North if you begin to go westward.
For some souls that already know theosophy (in its widest sense) the New Age could be a first approach. For many more, unfortunately, it prevents them from discovering a real spirituality, and leads them astray.

The question was simple - What is the source of the teachings on your site? Perhaps a multiple choice will help:

1) I Angel, do not know.
2) The teachings are a combination of personal insights, channelling & written by others ideas.
3) They are only channelled teachings.
4) They are only personal insights
5) They are only culled from others' teachings
6) None of the above

Which one of these is closest to describing accurately the source(s) of the site's teachings?

Hi Pablo,

Our world is just as one tiny classroom in the vast Universe filled with all levels of students studying all at the same time. Each student is situated at a different step in the ladder of evolution, and so require individual attention and specific, but different lessons. We here on earth are for the most part unaware of each other's personal status or spiritual attainment because we, the monad or spirit within, are concealed inside our physical body. But our Guides can see through the body and see what is in our heart. We reveal our true self to them through the colors of our aura and they administer their guidance and instruction to us, according to our precise need.

In the Theosophical context, on earth, development is ongoing in the 4th Globe, 4th Round and 5th Root-Race. We are presently in the transition period between the 5th and the early beginning of the 6th Root-Race. Hence, the New Age and new upgraded instruction. But as in a university, we have students in all levels, from the 1st Root-Race up to the 6th. There are some students on their 3rd Round and the advanced 5th Rounders provide guidance to all. All the students are learning different things. They all must be attended to, differently. Hence, the diversity in each person's lessons, and in the whole world. We cannot force the lower grades to take up higher lessons before their time. They should be taught only those lessons that they can handle.

There is no contradiction. The direction is the same for everyone -- from innocence, ignorance and character imperfection to perfection in all aspects of our being. But we go prerequisite by prerequisite. Development proceeds from the material/physical advancing to the spiritual. Everyone must first learn all the lessons of this world, thoroughly and well. Otherwise, we won't be capable of comprehending the more advanced and spiritual lessons.

Theosophy teaches that we move from the spiritual realms and take up our lessons in more grosser physical planes. But this refers to our environment and conditioning. The paragraph before refers to our development and learning -- the lessons we take up that raise the level of our consciousness.

Once something is already learned, it cannot be lost. It is retained in our intuition and available when needed. Only those who really have not learned or really do not know can be led astray.

Like water, once in the world, we seek our own level -- wherever we left off in our past incarnation and studies. Then we begin to take up the next new lessons. Also, as we are taught, we go 2 steps forward, 1 step back for a needed consolidation or in a never-ending spiralling upward motion -- it is not forward all the time. Yet, everyone is really moving forward. If we go North always, then we won't know what are at the sides. But we are to learn all sides, every aspect of all things and experiences. This is perfection. And it will take countless lifetimes. One lifetime is just as one day in class.

Angel

Hi Pablo,

Our world is just as one tiny classroom in the vast Universe filled with all levels of students studying all at the same time. Each student is situated at a different step in the ladder of evolution, and so require individual attention and specific, but different lessons. We here on earth are for the most part unaware of each other's personal status or spiritual attainment because we, the monad or spirit within, are concealed inside our physical body. But our Guides can see through the body and see what is in our heart. We reveal our true self to them through the colors of our aura and they administer their guidance and instruction to us, according to our precise need.

In the Theosophical context, on earth, development is ongoing in the 4th Globe, 4th Round and 5th Root-Race. We are presently in the transition period between the 5th and the early beginning of the 6th Root-Race. Hence, the New Age and new upgraded instruction. But as in a university, we have students in all levels, from the 1st Root-Race up to the 6th. There are some students on their 3rd Round and the advanced 5th Rounders provide guidance to all. All the students are learning different things. They all must be attended to, differently. Hence, the diversity in each person's lessons, and in the whole world. We cannot force the lower grades to take up higher lessons before their time. They should be taught only those lessons that they can handle.

There is no contradiction. The direction is the same for everyone -- from innocence, ignorance and character imperfection to perfection in all aspects of our being. But we go prerequisite by prerequisite. Development proceeds from the material/physical advancing to the spiritual. Everyone must first learn all the lessons of this world, thoroughly and well. Otherwise, we won't be capable of comprehending the more advanced and spiritual lessons.

Theosophy teaches that we move from the spiritual realms and take up our lessons in more grosser physical planes. But this refers to our environment and conditioning. The paragraph before refers to our development and learning -- the lessons we take up that raise the level of our consciousness.

Once something is already learned, it cannot be lost. It is retained in our intuition and available when needed. Only those who really have not learned or really do not know can be led astray.

Like water, once in the world, we seek our own level -- wherever we left off in our past incarnation and studies. Then we begin to take up the next new lessons. Also, as we are taught, we go 2 steps forward, 1 step back for a needed consolidation or in a never-ending spiralling upward motion -- it is not forward all the time. Yet, everyone is really moving forward. If we go North always, then we won't know what are at the sides. But we are to learn all sides, every aspect of all things and experiences. This is perfection. And it will take countless lifetimes. One lifetime is just as one day in class.

Angel

Nicholas, my friend, you appear to have problems following simple suggestions. You are your own man and prefer to find your own way, learn things on your own. You are the type of student that does not learn simply by being told. In fact, you are just like me. So I won't try.

Yes. Common sense dictates that those you mentioned are important contributory sources of our teachings. But there are other important considerations related to those concepts. And they are not primary. And more importantly, they are not the precise answers that you seek to know.

It really is 6) None of the above.

If it's too much trouble, then you really shouldn't bother. My source is just the same source as yours, anyway.

No, Angel, there is something you are missing.
Evolution is not a mechanical movement. Even a Monad can be "dissolved" if goes towards absolute evil. And there are forces trying to foster spiritual evolution and forces trying to prevent it. I don't think the New Age, generally speaking, is part of the forces that foster evolution.
You can give very basic spiritual teachings, for simple people, for selfish people, for dull people. But it has to help them give their next step in the direction of relative unselfisness. And the New Age is not doing that. Quite the contrary.

Now, let me tell you, I don't think you are being honest with Nicholas. Evidently you are evading giving an answer, playing with words. It may be better either to answer plainly what he is asking or to say plainly you don't want to answer. Don't you think?

No, I don't agree with you. I'm sorry that you feel this way. I have answered you both, truthfully, the best I know how. But neither I nor you can satisfy everybody.

I'm okay with our differences. I hope you are, too.