Greetings,
I would like to continue my thoughts (and questions) that strike me in reading The Secret Doctrine. On page 169, "To be fully realized, both this process and that of the birth of the Globes must be examined far more from their metaphysical aspect than from what might call a statistical standpoint, involving figures and numbers which are rarely permitted to be broadly used." HPB than writes, " And well he may; for outside of metaphysics no occult philosophy, no esotericism is possible." She writes this last sentence, in response " to the formidable difficulties encountered by us (the Adepts) in every attempt we make to explain our metaphysics to the Western mind."
Hum, I would answer that this is what HPB does. I think that is one of the problems with some theosophists. Not to cause a ruckus, but I find CWL to be at times "statistical" in his "Introduction". At times it seems exoteric, as I don't seem to use my intuition. However, even more I am not one, anymore, for dogmatism.

Back to the Globes, in this earth chain, I read that we are not to think of it as lineal.
Does this mean that the 7 (12) are active now in the evolution of life now, as it is in this fourth globe. And are there any comments on reading metaphysically.

On a side note, we (the wife and I) took a trip to almost the coast (Vancouver,B.C.) to unload some books (Xainty). I desire more books :), and have recently received "The Mountain Doctrine", by a Jonangpa-ian, Dolpopa.
While down there, I went to a new bookstore (with a eclectic range of spirituality), where the older ( and a little touched) owner lives in a heritage house. He is a fan of Sri Ramana. Its been awhile since I heard his name. It makes me wonder, if I should just space out, which I do, when contemplating the Self. However, the S.D. is so much fun; and it may be that HPB does explain to our western minds.
Jim B

Jim,

You quoted,

"To be fully realized, both this process and that of the birth of the Globes must be examined far more from their metaphysical aspect than from what might call a statistical standpoint, involving figures and numbers which are rarely permitted to be broadly used."

--> I completely agree. There is a tendency in Theosophy to get bogged down in a bunch of theory and numbers. It is not so important how old the earth is, as is its role for us within the physical/astral/mental planes of existence.

You said,

"She writes this last sentence, in response ' to the formidable difficulties encountered by us (the Adepts) in every attempt we make to explain our metaphysics to the Western mind.' "

--> I have always been impressed with the difficulties the Mahatmas had, putting all of this into English for non-initiated westerners.

"Not to cause a ruckus, but I find CWL to be at times 'statistical' in his "Introduction'. "

--> There is a tendency to get too cold and scientific about the whole thing, and lose sight of the inner meanings the teachers have for us. I have been to some Theoeosphical lectures where I felt I was at a presentation of a scientific paper rather than a Theosophical lecture. We need to stay focused on appling the teachings to our lives, rather than over-analyzing them.

"Back to the Globes, in this earth chain, I read that we are not to think of it as lineal."

--> I think you mean linear.

"And are there any comments on reading metaphysically."

--> I think it is just a matter of keeping in perspective where we came from and where we are headed, instead of just focusing on where we presently are.

"It makes me wonder, if I should just space out, which I do, when contemplating the Self."

--> It is good to contemplate the SD on an intuitive level, rather than a matter-of-fact level. There are meanings in the SD that can only be grasped through intuition.

"HPB does explain to our western minds."

--> The Mahatmas searched for many years before they found HPB to be their liason with the western world. She was to be the first person in a European body, giving the teachings to western people. Their difficulties in refrasing the Ancient Wisdom into English is well documented.

Hi Jim,

You say

From my point of view HPB works mainly through the occult lines, while Ramana Maharshi (as well as Nisargadatta Maharaj and J. Krishnamurti) work in a more mystical path, but all of them very much aligned with the Jñana Yoga system.
You will find the mystic key of HPB in The Voice of the Silence, although it has also much of an occult work.
I think both approaches are complementary and they throw light on each other. I’ve written some articles showing that (using HPB's and Krishnamurti's teachings). You can read them in my website http://pasender.tripod.com

Thank you for your hint, Pablo. This may be very insightful. I looked at the classes at Wheaton, wow. My wife and myself live very rural, on my wife's Native Reserve, however about 4 hours from Vancouver, B.C. So, we do not go there often; especially spring, summer, and fall, as we run a plant nursery and they need tending 7 days a week.
I took a quick peek at your site. I want to read more.
Would any wish to further define 'occult' and 'mystical'. I may understand mystical, and this is how I read the Voice of Silence. However, I do not believe that I understand the term' occult'.
Jim B

It is a complex question and I think we cannot know what the real difference between both paths is until we are actually on one of them.
But from what I understand I would say that the mystic tries to go beyond his personal consciousness and unite himself with the Divine. In that endeavor, there is usually a disregard of the external world—it is considered as unreal. In a sense, we could say that the mystic tries to reach the highest level skipping, or not paying attention to, the levels in-between, as much as possible. Its development is gradual and mainly through the path of virtue and purity. But at the same time it is said to be a direct (and fast) path towards liberation. Knowledge, and even intellectual development, does not seem to be crucial for this path. It can be tread alone, with no Master.
In the case of an occultist, it does not consider the external world as unreal but as illusory. It learns about the laws of nature and how to control them, because he becomes a “co-worker” of nature. They usually have a good deal of knowledge. This path, according to T. Subba Row, is not for every person, but only for the few particularly fitted to it. It is because its development is through Initiations, which are a sort of “leaps” or accelerated development, and therefore the pressure on the occultist’s nature is greater. This path needs a Master.
I think it is good for an aspirant to work on both lines at the same time, since that ensures a balanced development. Then, when the time comes, the aspirant will take the natural path according to his own nature. In fact, if he is fitted for the occult path, a Master will appear and take him as his disciple.

Pablo, I think you concisely stated the different paths. This helps me. It does seem that there are conflicting understandings of 'Occult'. When I was a teenager, I thought it only referred to magic. However, you clarified that it (also?) is connected with Wisdom.
Also, thanks for saying that it is possible to work both lines. The further along the path I go, I seem to become more eclectic, and I hope that OK.
Jim B

Pablo,

Wow, that is a fascinating idea, the idea that a mystic may make progress without a master, while an occultist (especially a Chela of the Trans-Himalayan Brotherhood) needs a master. I had never heard that before.

Well, the reason is that the occult path is a kind of "artificial path" to provide humanity with saviors. Thus, the Chela enters in a realm he is not really completely prepared to, and therefore he needs a Master to guide his development, although it does not mean the Master does something on behalf of his chela's advance. The Master only guides, the Chela has to do all the work.
Read T. Subba Row's article "Occultism of Southern India". You can find it available in several websites. Katinka's is one of them:

http://www.katinkahesselink.net/sr_india.htm