Hi all

My name is Pablo Sender, and I joined the Adyar TS in Argentina, in 1995. I'm 32 and currently I'm working at the National Headquarter of the TS in America.
I'm interested in the theosophical teachings in a wide sense (to me it doesn't include New Age teachings, though) and particularly in Blavatsky's and Krishnamurti’s teachings as representatives of the occult and mystical aspect of theosophy.
I hope through this Forum we will deepen our understanding of theosophy and thus foster our spiritual regeneration.

Hi, Pablo, and welcome to the Forum.

I remember seeing you at Joy's class two weeks ago. I am glad to see you made it back to Wheaton safely.

We are looking forward to your participation. There are several threads that are presently active. Feel free to jump into any thread, new or old.

If you have the time, please post a little more about yourself in this thread — more about your activites back in Argentina (what is the Lodge like?), what first attracted you to Theosophy, any areas of Theosophy you are particularly interested in, any topics you would to see discussed here at this Forum, etc. (I am especially interested in any Theosophical concepts you have trouble understanding.)

I know that you are a TSA employee at Wheaton, so please feel free to share with us the latest happenings there.

Hi Nick!

I didn't know it was you. Well, very good.
I will write soon
p

Welcome Pablo!

I too recall your good answers & comments at Joy's Krotona class.

Hi Nicholas! Nice to see you all here

Hi all!

Regarding the TS in Argentina, it is relatively small (around 300 members and probably another 300 non-members who comes regularly to the activities) but it is quite active. We have around 30 Lodges/Study Groups over 16 cities, with weekly members meetings and public activities in almost every place.
Most of the members study traditional Theosophy (HPB, the Masters, CWL, AB, Taimni, Radha Burnier, etc.) There is no study or lectures on modern esotericism, so to say (Mandalas, Healing, Tarot, etc., etc.). It is a rather orthodox Theosophy, but not in an extremist fashion.
My wife and I have been quite involved in the work of the TS. We have been members of the General Council, head of the Young Theosophists Group (that has been quite big and active for about 15 years), national lecturers, etc.
We've been living and working at the International Headquarter of the TS, at Adyar, for almost two years (I worked in the Archives), and now we are working at Olcott (I'm in the Education Department), probably until the end of next year. While in India, we gave several lectures in different cities, and a three-month course on The Secret Doctrine. Some of the lectures I gave, were published in The Theosophist.
I am particularly interested in connecting Krishnamurti’s and Blavatsky’s teachings (I have written an article comparing both: "Krishnamurti’s Teachings and Theosophy", The Theosophist December 2004). In my case, the teachings of Krishnaji were very useful to the spiritual practice. They embody several of the teachings in The Voice of the Silence and Light on the Path in a very detailed way. Also, in articles like "The Elixir of Life", "The Great Paradox", etc. Surprisingly, however, I discovered that his teachings thrown light upon The Secret Doctrine in very interesting ways. Some of the results of those insights were published in The Theosophist in "The Secret Doctrine as a Spiritual Practice" (May 2006) and "Meditating on The Secret Doctrine" (July 2006). I have two or three more articles to be written on that line.
In January, next year, my wife and I are going to give a two-month course here, at Olcott, entitled something like "Insights into The Secret Doctrine with Meditation Practices". It will be a meditative approach to the teachings in that book.
Well, I think that is enough. I look forward to participate in the Forum.
There is this weekend a Regional Conference in Atlanta, and I am going to attend there, so I will be back on Monday.
All the best
p

Hi Christian

My declaration about the New Age was a general one, without meaning to be disrespectful to anybody. The New Age is a very heterogeneous movement. What I don’t like in it is that, generally speaking, they turn the teachings into a self centered obsession. For example, a theosophical author would speak about the Power of Thought, and put the stress in our responsibility about the unconscious damage we can do with our evil thoughts, in our ability to help others sending good thought, etc. In the New Age, they speak about obtaining everything I (the personality) want: money, love, jobs, health, etc. They will say: “Breath in love, happiness, etc., and breath out your anger, frustration, etc.” While the theosophists, in tune with the Buddhist attitude, would breath in the suffering of the world and breath out love to everybody. That general attitude applies to most of the subjects (karma, reincarnation, the Masters, etc.). That’s why I don’t consider that the New Age teachings are in tune with Theosophy. Would you agree on that?
Of course, I don’t think everybody is the same, and even if he has that viewpoint, I respect him. I’ll be interested in what you or anybody else has to say.
Regarding Krishnamurti, I need a little more time to write about that, so I’ll do it when I’m back.
Take care
p

Pablo,

It sounds like have been a very active Theosophist!

You gave a a three-month course on The Secret Doctrine? Wow! Are your articles in The Theosophist online? Do you have any links?

You said,

"... the teachings of Krishnaji were very useful to the spiritual practice. They embody several of the teachings in The Voice of the Silence and Light on the Path in a very detailed way."

--> That sounds fascinating. Can you give us some examples of these embodiments?

I have a thread on The Voice of the Silence that I add to everyday. Feel free to comment on any of the aphorisms:

http://theosophy-forum.com/index.php?showt...=501&st=105&hl=

You said,

"...in articles like "The Elixir of Life", "The Great Paradox", etc. Surprisingly, however, I discovered that his teachings thrown light upon The Secret Doctrine in very interesting ways."

--> This sounds like great stuff, too. Again, please give us some examples, and links to anything already online.

"My declaration about the New Age was a general one, without meaning to be disrespectful to anybody."

Your statement was not disrespectful, so you do not need to worry about it. By the way, our member named Christian is a professional medium, and he travels around the country giving readings — just to give you an idea of where he is coming from.

"In the New Age, they speak about obtaining everything I (the personality) want: money, love, jobs, health, etc."

--> I think you can find New Age people who say this, and others who do not. The New Age Movement is too big to be characterized in only one way. I see Theosophy as part of the New Age Movement. Indeed, I would say that Theosophy started the New Age Movement, back in the 1800's.

"... I’ll do it when I’m back."

--> Please tell us about your experiences in Atlanta, when you get back.

Hi Nick

The Conference at Atlanta was very good. It was oriented to attract new people and there were in fact quite a good number of newcomers. I liked in particular a lecture by John Algeo on Spiritual Practice and Social Activism. Besides, a lecture by a Muslim Sufi (Jamal Rahman) and other by Jim Kenney (who works in Interreligious Engagement) where also very good.
Regarding my articles, I don't have them online. I do have the PDF files. Does this Forum have any place to upload the files? I've given several quotations of Krishnaji and The Voice, The SD, etc., in the articles, so you could get an idea of what I mean reading them.

Pablo,

I just checked, and this Forum allows me to upload 48 mb of files. I posted this post, and my test file is available to everyone. If so, you should be able to post 48 mb of files too. (There is a test file in this post called "test file" that you can click on and download.)

There are also free sites out there that let you post such files. have you heard of such sites? Have you thought about converting your PDF files into web pages? It might be easier to post your articles as web pages.

Hi Nick!

I will try to upload the articles after work.
I don't know about those free websites. Is it difficult to upload the files there? Do you know how to do it?

Nicholas, very interesting quotation! I didn't remember it. Thanks

Pablo,

Check out Google Docs:

https://www.google.com/accounts/ServiceLogi...=homepage&nui=1

After registering, upload to Google Docs your article, then open up the article in Google Docs. In the upper right is a Publish button, that will create a special URL that you can share with those you want to read it. Or there is an email sharing option button next to the Publish button.

Directions for uploading are pretty simple and when you click on Upload you will see them or hit the Help button.

Hi everybody!

For those of you who are looking for posts on The New Age Movement and Theosophy, they have been split off into their own thread:

http://theosophy-forum.com/index.php?showtopic=566&hl=

Pablo,

There are several ways you can put your articles on the Internet.

(1) You can use the Google service Nicholas has mentioned, although I am not familiar with it.

(2) You can use one of the many free sites that allow you to post your own webpage for free, such as Tripod.

http://www.tripod.lycos.com/

(3) Do you pay for your connection to the Internet? If so, you are already paying for empty space on the Internet, and you do not even know it. This may be the best way to go for now.

---

You also need to consider converting your PDF files to web pages. In my opinion, that is the best way to go. Then, post your webpage files at one of the three ISP's listed above.

Hi all!

Thanks for your ideas to open my web site. I've done it, and I've uploaded some of my articles there, including those about HPB/Krishnamurti. The address is

http://pasender.tripod.com/

You can enter there to read them.

Thank you again

p

Pablo,

Wow, that was quick! Nice job. Let me know if you need help converting your files to webpages.

Hi Nick!

Do you think it is necessary? I could link the articles in PDF format to the web site, so everybody can access...

Pablo,

If you can change them into webpages, it will be more convenient for people to read them. Whether you want to go through the bother, and whether you want to learn how to make webpages is your choice.

It sounds like you are going to be around the Theosophical world for many years to come. It also sounds like you will be posting files to webpages for many years. I think it behooves you to learn webpage design.

Go for it!

Hi Nick!

Ok, I'm willing to learn. I wait for your instructions.
From tomorrow I'll be away for one week, and I don't know if I'll have access to the net.
Thanks
p

Pablo,

Just for the fun of it, I took one and a half pages of one of your PDF articles, and formatted it into HTML (webpage) format. Take a look at it and tell me what you think.

http://users.ez2.net/nick29/pablo/meditating.htm

HTML files are much better than PDF files.

You need to learn HTML. Get started as soon as you can.

Hi Nick and everybody!

I'm back. And I'm ready to learn how to format PDF files into HTML format.... Is it possible to do it also with M.Word files?

Pablo,

There are many softeware packages out there that will do a lot of formatting for you. I recommend you do not use them. What I am suggesting is, you need to learn how to do all of the formatting yourself, by hand.

As far as working with PDF files, you must convert the PDF files to TXT files, and then convert the TXT files to HTM files.

By the way, one of the PDF files you put on the Internet is courrupted. (I hope you still have the original non-PDf files....)

MS-Word files are called DOC files. You must do the same thing: you must convert the DOC files to TXT files, and then convert the TXT files to HTM files.

Next, you need to learn how to do HTML by hand, from scratch. I suppose I could teach you right here in this thread. Another idea is to go online and find a lot of information on how to do HTML by hand. (Perhaps someone could give you a basic HTML textbook for Christmas...?) Basic HTML consists of learning how to use objects called tags. There are about 20 tags, and you must learn them first.

What do you think so far?

There are many software packages out there that will do a lot of formatting for you. I recommend you do use them.

Of course Pablo, you may use your mind as you wish, but why not take advantage of the available ways to simplify the presentation of your writings and thus, your life?

Thank you both

I'm going to get an HTML textbook and meanwhile I'll try with the available software. Let's see what happens.
Nick, I opened all the PDF files in my site, from a different computer, and they all worked. Which one is corrupeted?

Pablo,

It is your file called "Krishnamurti and Theosophy". The PDF file opens OK. However, when I try to save it as a TXT file, it comes out corrupted.

Friends,

May I suggest the following online html tutorial: http://www.w3schools.com/html/default.asp
There is an online html editor included, so one can immediately compare page code and design.

And maybe it is worthwhile to try the following Open Source html editor:
Notepad ++
http://notepad-plus.sourceforge.net/uk/site.htm
I didn’t use it but the source is reliable.

Warmest regards,
Anton

Pablo,

I was just wondering: Do you see yourself on the path to Chelaship?

Wow! Such a question...

It is one of those things many of us, as personalities, aspire to. But this matter is a very hard one to evaluate, because we don't know the real evolution of our Higher Ego.
In the Theosophical history there have been some cases of people who outwardly didn't seem fitted for chelaship, but inwardly they were, as well as the opposite cases—those who from outside seemed fitted, but their H. Ego was not evolved enough.
Being honest with myself, and from what I can judge, I think I have still to work on certain features of my personality that could not probably be there in a real chela. Not to mention the general requirements of perception of unity, detachment from the self, control of mind, etc. that I think a would-be chela needs to have to a greater extent I have.
My position in this question is not to think much about that. I try to be useful, to help others in their spiritual path, as far as I can do it, and to purify my nature. I leave the rest to the Law.
What do you think?

I think it is important to learn what we can about the requirements for chelaship from the literature (The Mahatma Letters are a great source) so that we might identify and work on those areas of our personality where we see that we are falling short (as Pablo described).
But we should not suppose that we are or will be chela material. If we are, good. If not, good.
The work on one's self should not be done with the motive of attaining some special position, but with the absence of selfish motive. One should not aspire, but work in profound humility for the sake of mankind.

Namaste

Pablo and Jon,

(For those people who do not know, a Chela is someone who has been accepted by one of the Mahatmas as their formal student.)

I agree we should not crave Chelaship. Theosophical literature has more than one case of people who desired Chelaship, became a Chela before they were ready (because of puffed-up pride), and failed. I am reminded of the Mahatma's words that we should not pursue Chelaship, but that we should merely wait for it to suddenly and unexpectedly descend upon us one day.

However, I think we can start making more direct progress towards Chelaship. (Accelerating progress toward Chelaship is the very purpose of Theosophy, is it not?) For example, one of the requirements for Chelaship is vegetarianism. Now, I have never been a vegetarian. But, because it is a requirement for Chelaship, for the first time in my life, I am taking a look at becoming a vegetarian.

By the way, I see the bare minimum requirements for Chelaship as

• no alcohol
• vegetarianism
• celibacy

Pablo said,

"But this matter is a very hard one to evaluate...."

--> I think that, if we can start making the changes in ourselves that are required of every Chela, we can evaluate our progress in a very positive way (even if we are not directly woring with a master).

Yet HPB (Morya's chela) ate meat and smoked excessively. Quite contradictory..

Following the advice given regarding chelaship is sure to help one become more useful to the service of the Masters.

Olcott once received a note from the Brothers saying,

I do not agree that "Accelerating progress toward Chelaship is the very purpose of Theosophy,". Quite the contrary, the purpose of Theosophy is to keep alive the spiritual life of humanity through altruistic thoughts, words & deeds.

As for theosophic diet, take a look at this article by WQ Judge:

http://www.theosociety.org/pasadena/path/v...sophic-diet.htm

Here is another thread on vegetarianism:

http://theosophy-forum.com/index.php?showt...=271&st=0&#last

HPB said that eating meat makes more difficult our struggle against the animal nature that keep us chained to our personality. Therefore, the advise of not eating meat is probably useful for someone who is still striving for liberation (liberation from the identification with the illusory). An enlightened being is beyond those limitations.
Master Koot Hoomi used to complain against Sinnett's habit of eating meat and drinking alcohol. But he also says in a letter that even if Sinnett stop eating meat, his very desire for it would be an equally strong impediment. Something like that is said in the very interesting article "The Elixir of Life" http://www.katinkahesselink.net/elixir.htm
The occult path is not so much to adjust oneself to external rules, but to transform our nature so that the external rule is just a natural expression of our inner state.
For rules to chelaship see HPB's articles:
- "Practical Occultism" http://www.blavatsky.net/blavatsky/arts/Pr...alOccultism.htm
- "Chelas and Lay Chelas" http://www.blavatsky.net/blavatsky/arts/Ch...ndLayChelas.htm

The preparation for Chelaship involves and integral discipline, which in the theosophical literature is described in a distinctive way. Dāmodar K. Mavalankar was an early Theosophist who succeeded in that endeavor, and his teachings on that subject are very valuable, since he was actually treading the path at that time.
I’ve written about this in my article “Dāmodar and the Preparation for the Occult Path”, published in the Dec. 2007 issue of The Indian Theosophist, and now I’ve uploaded it to my website http://pasender.tripod.com/
There you will find a pretty good description of the requirements to become a Chela according to the theosophical approach.

Pablo,

Thanks for posting that article. Here is a direct link.

Dâmodar and the Preparation for the Occult Path

http://ar.geocities.com/pasender/Damodar_a...ccult_path.html

I'll read the whole article later, when I get a chance.

I would put it this way:

The purpose of THEOSOPHY is to keep alive the spiritual life of humanity through altruistic thoughts, words and deeds.

The purpose of the THEOSOPHIST is to accelerate his self-evolution toward achieving higher consciousness, which in turn would bring him in contact with the Brotherhood.

This is the true occult path, I believe, and we come to it over and over again. Those who think they are beginning the first steps now, likely have begun trodding it many lives prior. I do believe it should be our goal individually to do the work of whole self improvement. At a certain point in development, we can not do otherwise than approach the path of discipleship.

The path of discipleship should be the aim of all Theosophists. Sure, we can't expect to become an accepted chela in this or the next life, or many to come, but we start the work now, no matter where we might stand or think we are along the path, because our aim should be the same as that of the Brotherhood -- to assist and guide the evolution of humanity. And how better to do that than to fit ourselves for discipleship?

We are all one, humanity, and so this is the highest aim -- to assist the Brotherhood in the best way we can. And how can we start? Little things, surely, such as altruistic thoughts, words, and deeds. And all philanthropic works. But we can not expect to save the world in our generation or the next, because humanity evolves at a certain pace (guided by the Hierarchy). The Masters are many steps above the average man in their Spiritual evolution, and they arrived there by concerted effort and exercise of will. Our aim should be those higher levels of development too.

Pablo said this:
"Being honest with myself, and from what I can judge, I think I have still to work on certain features of my personality that could not probably be there in a real chela. Not to mention the general requirements of perception of unity, detachment from the self, control of mind, etc. that I think a would-be chela needs to have to a greater extent I have"

There you have the work in front of you: refine the lower self, strive to perceive Unity in all things and all the time, detachment from the world of the lower self, ever retreating the awareness to the Higher (Selves), to the Mind and above. We can be good citizens, theosophists, and at the same time, at our own pace but with real effort and wisdom, always have the aim of chelaship. Because it is the destiny of Man to stand, someday eventually, where the Masters stand now. That will be a glorious day indeed.

I found Pablo's article, Dâmodar and the Preparation for the Occult Path, to be excellent and to the right points.

I also recommend the works of P.G. Bowen* for anyone who would approach the path of discipleship.

*
Books by P.G. Bowen:
The Sayings of The Ancient One
The Occult Way
and a great article:
The True Occult Path -- http://www.visdomsreligion.se/pgb09.html

Driver78,

Thank you for your post. It is good to see that you are still around!

You said,

"...accelerate his self-evolution toward achieving higher consciousness...."

"...to assist the Brotherhood in the best way we can... And all philanthropic works...."

--> I am sure that everyone here agrees with these ideas. However, the issue seems to be, what to do when one interferes with the other? Does spending time striving for a higher consciousness give us less time to do philanthropic work? What about a person who spends all of their time helping the homeless, and thus deprives themself of time to meditate (a seemingly necessary thing to do to raise our self-consciousness)?

It is a paradox that I feel is not easily answered. I suppose each one of us has to come up with their own answer.

Nick, Let me take your example to the extreme:

"I'm sorry, I can't help you. It's time for me to meditate". This of course sounds ridiculous, and I know it's not what you meant, but for me it indicates how my priorities ought to be.

I always come back to selfishness (even "spiritual" selfishness), vs. selflessness. Yes, study and meditation are important so that we gain the wisdom to act appropriately, but when need is placed before you on your path, as it likely will be, I believe one must act for the good of the whole, in the service of mankind. There will be other times to study and meditate.


(just Jon barking on his soapbox..)

Jon, thanks for answering my question.(Study on the paramitas)

The first perfection is generosity. I have wisdom teachings in 'The Stages of the Path' vol 2., "This is because you perfect generosity after you destroy your stingy clinging to all that you own - your body, resources, and roots of virtue - and you completely condition your mind to giving them away to living beings from the depths of your heart and, not only that, but also to giving to others the effects of this giving as well."

This action of generosity, then is a form of meditation. The Dalai Lama, I see recommends a visualization where you imagine another version of yourself (self-centred) and another of poor people (needy and suffering). He says, that after awhile your mind will change.

It seems that Nick's quote from the Voice of Silence, are in many ways the same, not first and second.

You've got my ear from your soap box.

Jim B.