Using the Stanzas as an example, what exactly is the set of writings, works or teachings that are considered to be the actual "guide"

Christian,

I think you are referring to the writings the Stanzas themselves come from. It is said the Stanzas we have are only a few of the volumes and volumes of Stanzas that were written. Is this what you are looking for?

According to Theososphy, all religious scripture are copied from the Stanzas. The Bible, Torah, Hindu Puranas, etc., (according to Theosophy) all come from the Stanzas.

The Stanzas are said to pre-date every human culture.

The Book of Dzyan is the source of the Stanzas. The Stanzas are just a portion of the Book. The Book of Dzyan is only the first volume of 14 ancient Commentaries. But even they are all based on a smaller book, the Secret Wisdom of the World. So I suspect it is this latter work which is the most complete, accurate transcription of Divine Wisdom.

David Pratt has a short survey of the question:

http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/DP5/dzyan.htm

Since our minds have tendencies & preferences built up over many lives, there is no easy answer to what is the definitive "guide". HPB's corpus is mainly Jnana or wisdom or intellectually based. She does say that is the best way, in the long run, for we in the Occident. But plenty of folks care little for that path and want more devotion or altruistic activity or ritual etc.

Christian,

You asked,

"does this full 14-volume commentary set exist?"

--> Yes, it does.

"I should think it would be much sought after?"

--> It is.

"There is an actual "core" teaching called the Secret Wisdom of the World that is the predecessor to all spiritual teaching?"

--> Yes, there is, in written form. The Secret Doctrine and Stanzas of Dzyan were taken directly from this written source.

"...does this text as well exist?"

--> Yes, it does.

"...why wouldn’t we all be pursuing the wisdom from this direct source?"

--> The actual books are closely guarded by the Mahatmas. Access is only granted to certain people.

"If volume-1 was only the tip of the ice burg, it seems that the various Theosophical Societies would be working on interpreting the others, since it known that the first is incomplete."

--> I imagine that 99.999% of all Theosophists do not have access to the books. I also imagine that even those who do, are not allowed to make them public. This is why Theosophy is such a revolution in the history of the world — this is the first time parts of the teachings have been given directly to mankind. (Some of the Mahatmas actually argued against releasing what Blavatsky published.)

Christian & Nick,

HPB said such texts & commentaries exist and I believe her. But I do not know of any reliable testimony or evidence that backs her up. Though, as Nick says such texts are not on Amazon & are known to a tiny handful of Brothers.

Another slant on this notion is that of astral texts or books. Even within Buddhism, there are those who have, like HPB, seen (astrally or clairvoyantly) and read sutras, shastras and other esoteric teachings that have never been written down. So maybe the Secret Wisdom book falls in that catagory. The 14 vols. of commentary are probably physical, but I have never grilled any bhikshus about that.

As for those 14 volumes being in a Buddhist monastery and Buddhism being only 2500 years old - Buddhas existed and taught long before our present one. So I suppose even our degenerated Buddhism of today is still closest in spirit & doctrine to the Ageless Wisdom. Or perhaps, since Brothers can be and have been bhikshus & abbots of monasteries, then when there is one in charge, the 14 vols. are put in his keeping, at his monastery.

Nicholas,

You said,

"HPB's corpus is mainly Jnana or wisdom or intellectually based. She does say that is the best way, in the long run, for we in the Occident. But plenty of folks care little for that path and want more devotion or altruistic activity or ritual etc."

--> HPB was very scientific and analytical, and her writings are too. As a result, the present Theosophical movement is also very scientific and analytical. You are correct in saying there are different kinds of people — devotional, ritualistic, etc. We must be careful and not convey the Ancient Wisdom in a way that only appeals to analytical people.

"Buddhas existed and taught long before our present one."

--> Theosophy teaches Gautama was the fourth Buddha on this Earth.

"...since Brothers can be and have been bhikshus & abbots of monasteries...."

--> It is fascinating to imagine what kinds of monastaries our Mahatmas have founded in the past.

Christian,

You said,

"I find that interesting about the Buddha being older than Buddhism, by thousands of years I would have to guess."

--> According to Theosophy, physical humanity is 18 million years old. Each race has had its own Buddha. Therefore, technically, pre-Gautama "Buddhism" is at least 18 million years old.

"So Buddha is reputed to be older than Christ, yes?"

--> This is a tricky question to answer, because there is controversy as to who Jesus really was. My preferred answer is Jesus was an incarnation of Maitreya Bodhisattva, although most people disagree with such an idea. (There is some controversy as to whether Jesus of Nazareth existed at all, which is a topic we have covered in an earlier thread.) All of these ideas point to the answer that, yes, Gautama is older. There is also the Christian idea that Jesus was indeed the embodiment of the Second Logos, which would make Jesus older.

"Any chance Christianity got some of its teachings from Buddhism?"

--> It is more likely both religions got their ideas (indirectly) from the same original source. Theosophy claims its teachings also came from this original source, and that Theosophy's renditions of the teachings are more accurate.

"...or, is it more likely that they both got it from the older sources, from Buddha followers before formal Buddhism I guess it would be?"

--> Correct. Mankind has had Divine Guides incarnating and giving guidance, ever since day one. These Guides are members of the Brotherhood, of which Gautama is also a member.

Yes, Christianity was influenced by Buddhist ideas from missionaries that Emperor Ashoka sent to the Middle East around 200? bce. Buddha Sakyamuni died around 400 bce.

HPB says the Tirthankaras of Jainism were the same as Buddhas. Buddhism teaches that Buddhas have appeared long before Gautama, even in previous kalpas.

Here is a book review of a title I wanted to read, but never did, about Buddhist influence on Xtianity. http://www.hvk.org/articles/0597/0005.html

Christian,

The idea of Maitreya as the next Buddha is well-known in the Buddhist world. However, whether Jesus was Maitreya, and whether the people at your Psychic Expo are channeling the real Maitreya remains to be seen. (I encourage you to pursue such ideas, if they appeal to you.)

Gautama was the Buddha of the Fourth Race (Orientals) and Maitreya will be the Buddha of the Fifth Race (Caucasians). I feel I have had many lifetimes as an Oriental, so I suppose it is only natural I feel more of an affinity for Gautama. I do not see this as a problem, because both sages teach the same wisdom.

If Jesus was Maitreya, it seems the church fathers have changed Christianity so much down the centuries, they have made it unrecognizeable to what a Jesus/Maitreya would have taught. It seems to me, Jesus/Maitreya would have taught something very similar to Buddhism and Theosophy. In my opinion, modern-day Christianity is quite different.

You are one race out of phase Nick. HPB wrote in CW 14 451fn that Maitreya will be the Buddha for the 6th Root Race many millions of years from now. Since Gautama was born in India which is the fount of the 5th RR - he is our Buddha and will be for as long as his Dharma lasts.

Nicholas,

I checked your source, and it does say Maitreya will be the sixth Buddha.

"† Chagpa-Thog-med is the Tibetan name of Âryâsanga, the founder of the Yogacharyâ or Naljorchodpa School. This Sage and Initiate is said to have been taught “Wisdom” by Maitreya Buddha Himself, the Buddha of the Sixth Race, at Tushita (a celestial region presided over by Him), and as having received from Him the five books of Champai-chos-nga. The Secret Doctrine teaches, however, that he came from Dejung, or Sambhala, called the “source of happiness” (“wisdom-acquired”) and declared by some Orientalists to be a “fabulous” place."

http://tonh.net/theosofie/hpb_cw_online/ar.../v14/mb_011.htm

--> I did, however, find this graphic.



along with this statement

"Again the Jains have 24 Buddhas whom they call "Tirtankaras," 21 by groups of three of the seven, and 3 mystical, and some books have Gautama preceded by four, not three Buddhas. This is not contradiction nor inconsistency but ignorance of the secret doctrine. Gautama was the 4th Buddha and the 12th Bodhisatwa of this Yug of our earth. He was the 4th Buddha of the 4th Round. Also the 4th Buddha of the closing 4th Race (between the 4th and the 5th). The fifth or Maitreya Buddha will come after the partial destruction of the 5th and when the 6th Race will be established already for some hundred thousands of years on earth between the utter close of the remnants of the 5th and the 6th, and therefore he is called the fifth Buddha. The 6th will be at the beginning of the 7th Race and the 7th at its end, perhaps half a million of years before its close -- when the final ultimate secrets will be revealed.

The Letters of H. P. Blavatsky to A. P. Sinnett
Theosophical University Press Online Edition

http://www.theosociety.org/pasadena/hpb-aps/bl-115.htm

--> I am at a loss as how to rectify the two sources.

The last line of HPB says:

So this implies that Amitabha Buddha, being the Dhyani for this 4th Round, incarnates or sends a ray during every RR on every one of the 7 globes. It depends on what & how you are counting - the one Dhyani Buddha, Amitabha; the 49 buddhas or bodhisattvas (one for each globe during 7 rounds); or the 343 racial bodhisattvas.

Recall that bodhisattvas are all rays from some buddha. So one can call Avalokita bodhisattva, for example, Amitabha buddha - because he is a ray or emanation from Amitabha.

The Brothers, Adepts, bodhisattvas etc. are like those Chinese dolls, one with another, within another, within another....