Title: China Says Tibetans Need Permission To Reincarnate
Description: From the "Unclear on the Concept" File
Description: From the "Unclear on the Concept" File
jon_k - August 29, 2007 01:00 PM (GMT)
China Regulates Buddhist Reincarnation
By Matthew Philips
Newsweek Aug. 20-27, 2007 issue
In one of history's more absurd acts of totalitarianism, China has banned Buddhist monks in Tibet from reincarnating without government permission. According to a statement issued by the State Administration for Religious Affairs, the law, which goes into effect next month and strictly stipulates the procedures by which one is to reincarnate, is "an important move to institutionalize management of reincarnation." But beyond the irony lies China's true motive: to cut off the influence of the Dalai Lama, Tibet's exiled spiritual and political leader, and to quell the region's Buddhist religious establishment more than 50 years after China invaded the small Himalayan country. By barring any Buddhist monk living outside China from seeking reincarnation, the law effectively gives Chinese authorities the power to choose the next Dalai Lama, whose soul, by tradition, is reborn as a new human to continue the work of relieving suffering.
At 72, the Dalai Lama, who has lived in India since 1959, is beginning to plan his succession, saying that he refuses to be reborn in Tibet so long as it's under Chinese control. Assuming he's able to master the feat of controlling his rebirth, as Dalai Lamas supposedly have for the last 600 years, the situation is shaping up in which there could be two Dalai Lamas: one picked by the Chinese government, the other by Buddhist monks. "It will be a very hot issue," says Paul Harrison, a Buddhism scholar at Stanford. "The Dalai Lama has been the prime symbol of unity and national identity in Tibet, and so it's quite likely the battle for his incarnation will be a lot more important than the others."
So where in the world will the next Dalai Lama be born? Harrison and other Buddhism scholars agree that it will likely be from within the 130,000 Tibetan exiles spread throughout India, Europe and North America. With an estimated 8,000 Tibetans living in the United States, could the next Dalai Lama be American-born? "You'll have to ask him," says Harrison. If so, he'll likely be welcomed into a culture that has increasingly embraced reincarnation over the years. According to a 2005 Gallup poll, 20 percent of all U.S. adults believe in reincarnation. Recent surveys by the Barna Group, a Christian research nonprofit, have found that a quarter of U.S. Christians, including 10 percent of all born-again Christians, embrace it as their favored end-of-life view. A non-Tibetan Dalai Lama, experts say, is probably out of the question.
By Matthew Philips
Newsweek Aug. 20-27, 2007 issue
In one of history's more absurd acts of totalitarianism, China has banned Buddhist monks in Tibet from reincarnating without government permission. According to a statement issued by the State Administration for Religious Affairs, the law, which goes into effect next month and strictly stipulates the procedures by which one is to reincarnate, is "an important move to institutionalize management of reincarnation." But beyond the irony lies China's true motive: to cut off the influence of the Dalai Lama, Tibet's exiled spiritual and political leader, and to quell the region's Buddhist religious establishment more than 50 years after China invaded the small Himalayan country. By barring any Buddhist monk living outside China from seeking reincarnation, the law effectively gives Chinese authorities the power to choose the next Dalai Lama, whose soul, by tradition, is reborn as a new human to continue the work of relieving suffering.
At 72, the Dalai Lama, who has lived in India since 1959, is beginning to plan his succession, saying that he refuses to be reborn in Tibet so long as it's under Chinese control. Assuming he's able to master the feat of controlling his rebirth, as Dalai Lamas supposedly have for the last 600 years, the situation is shaping up in which there could be two Dalai Lamas: one picked by the Chinese government, the other by Buddhist monks. "It will be a very hot issue," says Paul Harrison, a Buddhism scholar at Stanford. "The Dalai Lama has been the prime symbol of unity and national identity in Tibet, and so it's quite likely the battle for his incarnation will be a lot more important than the others."
So where in the world will the next Dalai Lama be born? Harrison and other Buddhism scholars agree that it will likely be from within the 130,000 Tibetan exiles spread throughout India, Europe and North America. With an estimated 8,000 Tibetans living in the United States, could the next Dalai Lama be American-born? "You'll have to ask him," says Harrison. If so, he'll likely be welcomed into a culture that has increasingly embraced reincarnation over the years. According to a 2005 Gallup poll, 20 percent of all U.S. adults believe in reincarnation. Recent surveys by the Barna Group, a Christian research nonprofit, have found that a quarter of U.S. Christians, including 10 percent of all born-again Christians, embrace it as their favored end-of-life view. A non-Tibetan Dalai Lama, experts say, is probably out of the question.
Nick the Pilot - August 29, 2007 10:52 PM (GMT)
Jon,
Yes, I first heard about this on the Buddhist Forum. I suppose this could be viewed as a desperate move by a desperate dictator.
Yes, I first heard about this on the Buddhist Forum. I suppose this could be viewed as a desperate move by a desperate dictator.
ChristianMyst - September 17, 2007 04:42 AM (GMT)
I hear commentary on this that implies this has no meaning in that neither Buddhism nor the Lama believein or experience reincarnation. I have responded that Buddhism's concept of "rebirth" is probably being understood to have significant enough similarity to reincarnation that Buddhists and the Lama are understanding them as would we (those of us who do) believe in reincarnation. Just my thoughts.
Harvey - June 25, 2008 08:29 AM (GMT)
Hi Jon,
This is an old thread, but I’m a newbie and I couldn’t resist responding to a Tibetan theme.
This is typical Beijing ideology: religion is superstitious nonsense, so people need re-educating, but meanwhile we will control the superstitious nonsense. They started this process in 1995 when Beijing took the Panchen Lama into ‘protective custody’. (The Panchen Lama is Tibet’s second highest spiritual leader after the Dalai Lama.) The young boy disappeared days after his official recognition by the Dalai Lama, and a few months later a ‘new’ Panchen Lama was selected by the Chinese Government.
It seems inevitable that something similar will happen following the death of the Dalai Lama. To my western mind it would seem more logical for his next incarnation to be recognised from a Tibetan family in Dharamsala, but perhaps an American Dalai Lama would be more difficult to kidnap!
It was heartening to see the (mainly peaceful) demonstrations against the Chinese Olympic torch processions around the world, but there is no political will in the West to stand against China on the issue of Tibetan occupation or even human rights in general. We have come to depend on cheap Chinese products.
Change, if it comes, will be slow, and perhaps we saw a hint of change in Beijing’s reaction to the earthquake: open access for the media, foreign aid welcomed.
My dream is for Tibet (or big parts of it) to be declared a Spiritual National Park. Beijing could retain political and economic control whilst pulling off the biggest international goodwill gesture of all time.
Picking up on ChristianMyst’s thoughts, Prince Siddhartha was born into a Hindu culture. Everyone believed in reincarnation, and so there would be no need for him to teach about the subject, but the main thrust of his teachings as Buddha was how to break free from the endless cycle of rebirth and suffering. The Dalai Lama’s books are mainly about compassion and loving-kindness, aimed at a western audience. He has said that he doesn’t think people should change their religion, so he doesn’t ram reincarnation down our throats. Once you accept reincarnation as a given, the fact of it becomes unimportant. Perhaps all that is important is what you do in the moment.
This is an old thread, but I’m a newbie and I couldn’t resist responding to a Tibetan theme.
This is typical Beijing ideology: religion is superstitious nonsense, so people need re-educating, but meanwhile we will control the superstitious nonsense. They started this process in 1995 when Beijing took the Panchen Lama into ‘protective custody’. (The Panchen Lama is Tibet’s second highest spiritual leader after the Dalai Lama.) The young boy disappeared days after his official recognition by the Dalai Lama, and a few months later a ‘new’ Panchen Lama was selected by the Chinese Government.
It seems inevitable that something similar will happen following the death of the Dalai Lama. To my western mind it would seem more logical for his next incarnation to be recognised from a Tibetan family in Dharamsala, but perhaps an American Dalai Lama would be more difficult to kidnap!
It was heartening to see the (mainly peaceful) demonstrations against the Chinese Olympic torch processions around the world, but there is no political will in the West to stand against China on the issue of Tibetan occupation or even human rights in general. We have come to depend on cheap Chinese products.
Change, if it comes, will be slow, and perhaps we saw a hint of change in Beijing’s reaction to the earthquake: open access for the media, foreign aid welcomed.
My dream is for Tibet (or big parts of it) to be declared a Spiritual National Park. Beijing could retain political and economic control whilst pulling off the biggest international goodwill gesture of all time.
Picking up on ChristianMyst’s thoughts, Prince Siddhartha was born into a Hindu culture. Everyone believed in reincarnation, and so there would be no need for him to teach about the subject, but the main thrust of his teachings as Buddha was how to break free from the endless cycle of rebirth and suffering. The Dalai Lama’s books are mainly about compassion and loving-kindness, aimed at a western audience. He has said that he doesn’t think people should change their religion, so he doesn’t ram reincarnation down our throats. Once you accept reincarnation as a given, the fact of it becomes unimportant. Perhaps all that is important is what you do in the moment.
Nick the Pilot - June 25, 2008 11:25 AM (GMT)
Harvey,
You said,
"...I couldn’t resist responding to a Tibetan theme."
--> Are you a reincarnated Tibetan?
You said,
"...I couldn’t resist responding to a Tibetan theme."
--> Are you a reincarnated Tibetan?
jon_k - June 25, 2008 03:54 PM (GMT)
Harvey,
It's tough to figure China's motives. Tibet is not asset rich. No natural resources, no good farmland, no technology. Perhaps they need more consumers for Chinese merchants, even a population with no disposable income.
They certainly don't want another Taiwan or Hong Kong, so part of it is saving face - so important to the Chinese.
They also seem to want to control the culture, and thwart any diversity. If you can't understand something/someone, turn them into something/someone you can, then you can control it/them.
The Chinese government also prefers atheism to any religion or superstition. Another reason to control/change Tibetan culture.
I need to understand this better, as I believe I will be visiting Tibet this October.
It's tough to figure China's motives. Tibet is not asset rich. No natural resources, no good farmland, no technology. Perhaps they need more consumers for Chinese merchants, even a population with no disposable income.
They certainly don't want another Taiwan or Hong Kong, so part of it is saving face - so important to the Chinese.
They also seem to want to control the culture, and thwart any diversity. If you can't understand something/someone, turn them into something/someone you can, then you can control it/them.
The Chinese government also prefers atheism to any religion or superstition. Another reason to control/change Tibetan culture.
I need to understand this better, as I believe I will be visiting Tibet this October.
Nick the Pilot - June 25, 2008 05:27 PM (GMT)
Hi everybody!
Some people say that China has turned into a fascist state. I am afraid I am starting to agree with them. Here is a good thread on the topic at the Buddhist Forum.
http://www.lioncity.net/buddhism/index.php...topic=70067&hl=
One poster said,
"Authoritarianism has become popular in all of it's flavors. People want security, and usually seek it in ways that undermine liberty."
--> I think that describes exactly what is going on in China and Tibet. I believe we are watching the slow, deliberate destruction of the Tibetan culture by the Chinese government.
Some people say that China has turned into a fascist state. I am afraid I am starting to agree with them. Here is a good thread on the topic at the Buddhist Forum.
http://www.lioncity.net/buddhism/index.php...topic=70067&hl=
One poster said,
"Authoritarianism has become popular in all of it's flavors. People want security, and usually seek it in ways that undermine liberty."
--> I think that describes exactly what is going on in China and Tibet. I believe we are watching the slow, deliberate destruction of the Tibetan culture by the Chinese government.
Harvey - June 26, 2008 07:39 AM (GMT)
No, Nick, I don’t claim to have had a past life as a Tibetan, but Tibet has had a special place in my heart for as long as I can remember. When I finally got to visit it wasn’t a dream come true, because I never dreamed or imagined that it was even possible, but it was a very moving experience. Walking through the Potola seemed very familiar; perhaps because of Rampa’s writings; perhaps because I had been there before.
If China just wanted a captive market for their consumer goods then killing a lot of potential consumers would seem like bad marketing strategy. I think Tibet has natural resources, Jon: minerals for mining; hydro potential for energy. And if the world starts waging a war that involves everybody firing missiles at each other, you wouldn’t need much rocket fuel to launch missiles from the high Tibetan Plateau.
If it is Beijing’s policy to destroy Tibetan culture, they shouldn’t have used a sledge-hammer to crack a walnut. The walnut fragmented into millions of pieces, and now Tibetan culture is alive and well in all kinds of unexpected places around the world. I used to live in Cumbria, in the north of England. There were two Tibetan monasteries within driving distance, both founded by Tibetan lamas fleeing persecution. The Chinese invasion of Tibet was largely responsible for making Tibetan culture and wisdom freely available to everyone.
Jon, if you go to Tibet you are in for a wonderful experience.
If China just wanted a captive market for their consumer goods then killing a lot of potential consumers would seem like bad marketing strategy. I think Tibet has natural resources, Jon: minerals for mining; hydro potential for energy. And if the world starts waging a war that involves everybody firing missiles at each other, you wouldn’t need much rocket fuel to launch missiles from the high Tibetan Plateau.
If it is Beijing’s policy to destroy Tibetan culture, they shouldn’t have used a sledge-hammer to crack a walnut. The walnut fragmented into millions of pieces, and now Tibetan culture is alive and well in all kinds of unexpected places around the world. I used to live in Cumbria, in the north of England. There were two Tibetan monasteries within driving distance, both founded by Tibetan lamas fleeing persecution. The Chinese invasion of Tibet was largely responsible for making Tibetan culture and wisdom freely available to everyone.
Jon, if you go to Tibet you are in for a wonderful experience.
Nick the Pilot - June 26, 2008 01:20 PM (GMT)
Harvey,
You said,
"If it is Beijing’s policy to destroy Tibetan culture, they shouldn’t have used a sledge-hammer to crack a walnut."
--> Fascism does funny things.
"The walnut fragmented into millions of pieces, and now Tibetan culture is alive and well in all kinds of unexpected places around the world.... The Chinese invasion of Tibet was largely responsible for making Tibetan culture and wisdom freely available to everyone."
--> Someone has already said that the Chinese crackdown on Tibetan religion has had the effect of spreading it all around the world. If it had not been for the Chinese crackdown, we may never have heard of Tibetan Buddhism. Tibetan Buddhism is now one of the most popular forms of Buddhism in the West. Funny karma, huh?
You said,
"If it is Beijing’s policy to destroy Tibetan culture, they shouldn’t have used a sledge-hammer to crack a walnut."
--> Fascism does funny things.
"The walnut fragmented into millions of pieces, and now Tibetan culture is alive and well in all kinds of unexpected places around the world.... The Chinese invasion of Tibet was largely responsible for making Tibetan culture and wisdom freely available to everyone."
--> Someone has already said that the Chinese crackdown on Tibetan religion has had the effect of spreading it all around the world. If it had not been for the Chinese crackdown, we may never have heard of Tibetan Buddhism. Tibetan Buddhism is now one of the most popular forms of Buddhism in the West. Funny karma, huh?
occult_seeker - July 9, 2008 04:45 PM (GMT)
To me it seems the Tibetan culture is almost directly patterned after the ancient Atlantean theocracy. About time it got updated and modernized (the Chochans have long since ceased to reincarnate in the rulers).
On the other hand China's motives seem to be to acquire and possess territory for its own sake, in the system of Bailey the nation of China is ruled by the Earth sign Taurus (see the obsession with the territory of Taiwan, and even portions of Russia claimed to be part of some former empire). That's not a particularly laudable motive from a spiritual point of view. (Also I am fairly certain Tibet is a different "nation" in the geographical/Ptolemaic/astrological sense, and in that case deserves at least real autonomy notwithstanding its outdated culture.)
On the other hand China's motives seem to be to acquire and possess territory for its own sake, in the system of Bailey the nation of China is ruled by the Earth sign Taurus (see the obsession with the territory of Taiwan, and even portions of Russia claimed to be part of some former empire). That's not a particularly laudable motive from a spiritual point of view. (Also I am fairly certain Tibet is a different "nation" in the geographical/Ptolemaic/astrological sense, and in that case deserves at least real autonomy notwithstanding its outdated culture.)
Nick the Pilot - July 9, 2008 05:25 PM (GMT)
Occult Seeker,
Hopefully, Tibet can be "modernized" in a free and independent way, not by a group of outsider-fascists.
By the way, welcome to the Forum.
When you get a chance, feel free to drop by the Introductions Section, and tell us about yourself. Are you a Theosophist? Is there a particular Theosophical tradition or teacher you follow? What part of the world do you hail from?
Hopefully, Tibet can be "modernized" in a free and independent way, not by a group of outsider-fascists.
By the way, welcome to the Forum.
When you get a chance, feel free to drop by the Introductions Section, and tell us about yourself. Are you a Theosophist? Is there a particular Theosophical tradition or teacher you follow? What part of the world do you hail from?
occult_seeker - July 9, 2008 08:05 PM (GMT)
| QUOTE (Nick the Pilot @ Jul 9 2008, 05:25 PM) |
| Occult Seeker, Hopefully, Tibet can be "modernized" in a free and independent way, not by a group of outsider-fascists. By the way, welcome to the Forum. When you get a chance, feel free to drop by the Introductions Section, and tell us about yourself. Are you a Theosophist? Is there a particular Theosophical tradition or teacher you follow? What part of the world do you hail from? |
If "theosophist" means that I believe HPB (or any other theosophist) uttered the final truth then I'm not one. If it means that I believe they revealed part of an ancient wisdom teaching to the world then maybe I am one. (I also seek to avoid identifying with and emphasizing aspects of the transient personality such as nationality.)
Nick the Pilot - July 9, 2008 08:31 PM (GMT)
There is not one Theosophist in the world who thinks that HPB uttered the final truth.
I am fascinated by your "Maybe I am, and maybe I'm not" answer to being a Theosophist. I have the same problem with Buddhism. If someone were to ask me if I am a Buddhist, I would definitely answer, "Maybe I am, and maybe I'm not." Perhaps you and I have something in common.
I am fascinated by your "Maybe I am, and maybe I'm not" answer to being a Theosophist. I have the same problem with Buddhism. If someone were to ask me if I am a Buddhist, I would definitely answer, "Maybe I am, and maybe I'm not." Perhaps you and I have something in common.
jon_k - July 9, 2008 08:36 PM (GMT)
| QUOTE (occult_seeker @ Jul 9 2008, 02:05 PM) |
| If "theosophist" means that I believe HPB (or any other theosophist) uttered the final truth then I'm not one. If it means that I believe they revealed part of an ancient wisdom teaching to the world then maybe I am one. |
Though there are Theosophical 'Fundamentalists', I feel that the SD (and other works) is not a book of 'facts', but a carefully planned effort to get people to think differently - a preparation for an evolutionary step for mankind.
Yes, Theosophy can be seen as a formulation of ancient wisdom, but not all wisdom is ancient. Wisdom is not simply knowledge, there is an experiential component as well. Sometimes wisdom comes from applying principles in your life, and finding out what works, and what doesn't.
Welcome to the forum..
jon_k - July 9, 2008 10:41 PM (GMT)
| QUOTE (Nick the Pilot @ Jul 9 2008, 02:31 PM) |
| I am fascinated by your "Maybe I am, and maybe I'm not" answer to being a Theosophist. |
I like to say that I am an aspiring Theosophist, or a student of Theosophy.
"Theosophist is who Theosophy does". It's a pretty high standard to live up to.
Nick the Pilot - July 10, 2008 05:31 PM (GMT)
Jon,
I suppose there are "Theosophical fundamentalists' out there. I am reminded of HPB's quote:
Orthodoxy in Theosophy is a thing neither possible nor desirable. It is a diversity of opinion, within certain limits, that keeps the Theosophical Society a living and healthy body, its many other ugly features notwithstanding. Were it not, for the existence of a large amount of uncertainty in the minds of students of Theosophy, such healthy divergencies would be impossible, and the Society would degenerate into a sect, in which a narrow and stereotyped creed would take the place of the living and breathing spirit of Truth and an ever growing Knowledge.
(H. P. Blavatsky to the American Conventions, 1888-1891, p 5)
Fortunately, I think we have not gotten so bad as to have a Creed just yet. I think the contrasting opinions on this Forum are a good thing. The further they keep us away from a Creed, the better.
Ya know, now that I think about it, a Creed is forbidden in Theosophy. I like that.
I suppose there are "Theosophical fundamentalists' out there. I am reminded of HPB's quote:
Orthodoxy in Theosophy is a thing neither possible nor desirable. It is a diversity of opinion, within certain limits, that keeps the Theosophical Society a living and healthy body, its many other ugly features notwithstanding. Were it not, for the existence of a large amount of uncertainty in the minds of students of Theosophy, such healthy divergencies would be impossible, and the Society would degenerate into a sect, in which a narrow and stereotyped creed would take the place of the living and breathing spirit of Truth and an ever growing Knowledge.
(H. P. Blavatsky to the American Conventions, 1888-1891, p 5)
Fortunately, I think we have not gotten so bad as to have a Creed just yet. I think the contrasting opinions on this Forum are a good thing. The further they keep us away from a Creed, the better.
Ya know, now that I think about it, a Creed is forbidden in Theosophy. I like that.