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Title: "Logos" and The Christian Definition


Nick the Pilot - February 25, 2007 07:50 PM (GMT)
Hi everybody!

I have been "getting into it" with Christians on another Forum. The topic was the word Logos as it is used in present-day Christianity. I responded with the Theosophical definition. Here is the link:

http://www.comparative-religion.com/forum/....html#post92991

Here is what I wrote:

---

Seattlegal,

Thanks for that clarification. In Theosophy, then, Logos has a different definition. Logos stands for the Father-Mother-Son Trinity, which we also describe as Spirit-Matter-Universe.

It is also helpful to point out another Christian-Theosophical difference. The terms Darkness, Spirit, and Light appear in Genesis 1. Theosophy equates these terms as

Darkness = Absolute (The word Theosophists use instead of God)

Spirit = Father

Light = Son

Water = Matter = Mother

I have made reference in another thread regarding the (temporary) periodicity (appearing, disappearing, and reappearing) of The Son. The Bible says, "Let there be Light", which is when we record the appearance of The Son in this universe. Before Light appeared, there was only Darkness, Spirit, and Water (Matter).

It seems to me that modern Christianity equates God with Spirit. Theosophy does not. (The Bible also does not seem to, in that it mentions "the Spirit of God". This infers the two concepts are not identical.)

InLove,

You said,

"...I find fascinating about 'Logos', a term that may mean 'Word'...."

In Theosophy, we use the words Sound, Silence, Voice, and Word. We use these meanings:

Silence = Father

Sound = Mother

Voice = Mother

Word = Son

Like you, I have wondered if we need to have these confusing terms. I think it was done in order to explain complicated cosmic principles to uneducated people centuries ago. Perhaps using these terms makes it easier. (I think it makes it more confusing.)

By the way, we contend that The Son is the same as the Buddhist concept of Avalokiteshvara. It is important to note the connection between Sound and the Buddhist concept of Avalokiteshvara.

“... some eastern sholars maintain that the original term was Avalokita-svara, literally the looked-at-sound....” (Prem and Ashish, Man the Measure of all Things, p. 204)

(Kwan-Yin — called The Goddess of Mercy in English and Kannon in Japanese — is an important deity in Buddhism. She is commonly depicted as a statue of a woman with a piled-high hairdo, wearing a hooded white robe, and pouring water from a vase. Thousands of temples have been built in her honor, and hundreds of thousands of people pray to Kwan-Yin everyday. It is my opinion that Buddhists pray to Kwan-Yin in the same way, and for the same purpose, as Catholics pray to the Blesssed Virgin Mary.)

(This also shows a commonality between Buddhism and the Bible. It is the Theosophical contention, then, that Buddhism and Christianity are talking about the same thing.)

Therefore, InLove, in response to your Logos/Word observation, I see Word (The Christian "Son") as referring to only one aspect of the triplicate Logos.

ChristianMyst - February 25, 2007 07:57 PM (GMT)
Nick,

In Theosophy there are Logoi, multiple Logo's. Wouildn't that extend your definition beyond the Trinity?

The correspondences make a lot of sense to me. Thank you for the illustration of such, I will make important note of that. It should add a lot of meaning to our reading.

I've noticed Kwan-Yin to be a primary figure in New Age circles, too. Although, I do not understand why as yet. In Reading people, of which I do many while on tour, I notice Kwan-Yin in their Aura. When I mention this observation, I get a confirmation that the person prays or communes to this deity. It might be work exploring, by one of us, the history of Kwan-Yin through both the ages, and the many cultures influenced.

Regards,

Christian

Nick the Pilot - February 25, 2007 08:04 PM (GMT)
Christian-san!

No. There are Logoi upon Logoi, all arranged in a Hierarchy. There is a top to the Hierarchy, with the big-cheese, main Logos at the top of it all.

You said,

"I've noticed Kwan-Yin to be a primary figure in New Age circles, too. Although, I do not understand why as yet."

--> There are two parts to my answer.

(1) In my humble opinion, I see the New Age movement as largely a reaction to the oppressiveness of Christianity.

(2) People need someone to pray to. If the Blessed Virgin Mary is unavailable, Kwan-Yin becomes very convenient.

---

As I mentioned in my post, thousands of temples have been built in her honor, and hundreds of thousands of people pray to Kwan-Yin everyday. Take a look at a few links:

http://circle-of-light.com/Mantras/KuanYin.html

http://community.webshots.com/album/169275872XvDqZD

http://www.geocities.com/kwanyin_pdx/

http://www.lksf.org/eng/other/eventall/cn/...le/page01.shtml

http://www.japan-guide.com/e/e3001.html

http://www.sotozen-net.or.jp/kokusai/frien...4_1/statues.htm

http://www.onmarkproductions.com/html/kannon.shtml

http://www.onmarkproductions.com/html/kannon-pilgrim.shtml

ChristianMyst - February 25, 2007 09:13 PM (GMT)
--> There are two parts to my answer.

(1) In my humble opinion, I see the New Age movement as largely a reaction to the oppressiveness of Christianity.

Perhaps, as that would certainly be a concern of theirs. It cannot be overlooked, as well, that much of the New Age Movement is taken from the Theosophical Movement, sans the science and complexity. This is why I often refer to their practices and belief's as New Age Notions.


(2) People need someone to pray to. If the Blessed Virgin Mary is unavailable, Kwan-Yin becomes very convenient.

As per the New Age case, Archangel Michael is probably #1, and an assortment of Goddesses would follow Kwan-Yin, --- should anyone be interested
---


Thank you for the Links. I will check them out. What would we do if you ever needed computer repair??? :D

Regards,

Christian

Nicholas - February 25, 2007 10:05 PM (GMT)
The Logos doctrine is very profound and Subba Row writes much about it in this work of his:

Notes on the Bhagavad Gita

Nick the Pilot - February 26, 2007 01:10 AM (GMT)
Christian,

You said,

"What would we do if you ever needed computer repair???"

--> Oh, I am Microsoft-certified, and very computer-friendly. I re-install Windows on a regular basis.

You are a computer-authority, aren't you?

ChristianMyst - February 26, 2007 04:08 AM (GMT)
Thank you Nicholas, I will want to check out that link.

Yes, Nick, I have a computer background. I wholely support reloading Windows frequently.


Nick the Pilot - March 3, 2007 06:28 PM (GMT)
Christian,

Did you know the existence of Michael the Archangel is specifically covered in The Secret Doctrine?

kh7 - March 4, 2007 09:13 AM (GMT)
QUOTE
Read the account about Indra (Vâyu) in the Rig-Veda, the occult volume par excellence of Aryanism, and then compare it with the same in the Purânas—the exoteric version thereof, and the purposely garbled account of the true Wisdom religion.  In the Rig Veda Indra is the highest and greatest of the Gods, and his Soma-drinking is allegorical of his highly spiritual nature.  In the Purânas Indra becomes a profligate, and a regular drunkard on the Soma juice, in the terrestrial way.  He is the conqueror of all the “enemies of the gods”—the Daityas, Nâgas (Serpents), Asuras, all the Serpent-gods, and of Vritri, the Cosmic Serpent.  Indra is the St. Michael of the Hindu Pantheon—the chief of the militant Host. Turning to the Bible, we find Satan, one of the “Sons of God” (Job. i. 6), becoming in exoteric interpretation the Devil, and the Dragon in its infernal, evil sense.  But in the Kabala (“Book of Numbers”) Samael, who is Satan, is shown to be identical with St. Michael, the slayer of the Dragon.  How is this?  For it is said that Tselem (the image) reflects alike Michael and Samael who are one.  Both proceed, it is taught, from Ruach (Spirit), Neschamah (Soul) and Nephesch (life).  In the “Chaldean Book of Numbers” Samael is the concealed (occult) Wisdom, and Michael the higher terrestrial Wisdom, both emanating from the same source but diverging after their issue from the mundane soul, which on Earth is Mahat (intellectual understanding, or Manas (the seat of Intellect).  They diverge, because one (Michael) is influenced by Neschamah, while the other (Samael) remains uninfluenced.  This tenet was perverted by the dogmatic spirit of the Church; which, loathing independent Spirit, uninfluenced by the external form (hence by dogma), forthwith made of Samael-Satan (the most wise and spiritual spirit of all)—the adversary of its anthropomorphic God and sensual physical man, the DEVIL!

From: p. 378 THE SECRET DOCTRINE, volume 2

and
QUOTE
The story told is, that Taraka (called also Kalabhana), owing to his extraordinary Yoga-powers, had obtained all the divine knowledge of yoga-vidya and occult powers of the gods, who conspired against him.  Here we see the “obedient” Host of Archangels or minor gods conspiring against the (future) Fallen angels, whom Enoch accuses of the great crime of disclosing to the world all “the secret things done in heaven.” It is Michael, Gabriel, Raphael, Surgal and Uriel who denounced to the Lord God those of their Brethren who were said to have pryed into the divine mysteries and taught them to men:  by this means they themselves escaped a like punishment.  Michael was commissioned to fight the Dragon, and so was Karttikeya, and under the same circumstances.  Both are “leaders of the Celestial Host,” both Virgins, both “leaders of Saints,” “Spear-holders” (Saktidhara), etc., etc.  Karttikeya is the original of Michael and St. George, as surely as Indra is the prototype of Karttikeya.

footnote on p. 382, SD, volume 2


again

QUOTE
“The gods have weapons forged for them,† and Merodach (the archangel Michael in Revelation) undertakes to lead the heavenly host against the dragons.  The war, which is described with spirit, ends, of course, in the triumph of the principles of Good. . . . .”‡
This war of gods with the powers of the Deep, refers also, in its last and terrestrial application, to the struggle between the Aryan adepts of the nascent Fifth Race and the Sorcerers of Atlantis, the Demons of the Deep, the Islanders surrounded with water who disappeared in the Deluge.  (See the last pages of Vol. I., “Isis Unveiled,” Atlantis.)
The symbols of the dragons and “War in Heaven” have, as already stated, more than one significance; religious, astronomical and geological events being included in the one common allegory.  But it had also a Cosmological meaning.  In India the Dragon story is repeated in one of its forms in the battles of Indra with Vritra.  In the Vedas this Ahi-Vritra is referred to as the Demon of Drought, the terrible hot Wind.  Indra is shown to be constantly at war with him; and with the help of his thunder and lightning the god compels Ahi-Vritra to pour down in rain on Earth, and then slays him. Hence, Indra is called the Vritra-Han or the “slayer of Vritra,” as Michael is called the Conqueror and “Slayer of the Dragon.” Both these “Enemies” are then the “Old Dragon” precipitated into the depths of the Earth, in this one sense.

SD 2, p. 384


See also the whole section on 'fallen angels' starting page 478 in the second volume.




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