Has anyone run across sources which pinpoint the globes we have already incarnated on, and those before us still. And further, the sequence. Theosophists seem to differ in their opinions and I would like to review the collective materal myself. For example, some think Mercury is the next planet after the Manvantara. Some think the moon was previous, and Venus before that.

Thanks, Christian

Christopher,

Here is a graphic from The Secret Doctrine, vol I p. 172



(Graphic shown from the TS-Pasadena website.)

The above graphic shows (read from right to left) how we humans moved from the Moon to the Earth.

Regarding which will be our next planet, this is a point of contention within Theosophy. Leadbeater says it will be Mercury, while the followers of Mr. Judge say this will not happen.

The Secret Doctrine infers that we will move on to the next planet in our Chain (Planet E+ in the graphic above), which exists on the astral plane and does not exist on the physical plane. (However, the fact we came from a different Round, and did not come from Globe D of our present Round throws a great deal of confusion as to which planet we will inhabit next.)

Unfortunately, The Secret Doctrine mainly deals with happenings on the fourth world-period of each Round. (We are presently in the fourth world-period of our Round, which is the 25th world-period out of a total of 49 world-periods in our Manvantara.) This means that the happenings of the six other world-periods of each Round are left out of The Secret Doctrine.

“We are not concerned with the other Globes in this work except incidentally.” (SD vol I p. 160 note)

We are presently in the 25th world-period of our Manvantara, and we will be moving on to the 26th world-period when our time on this Earth comes to an end. Unfortunately, The Secret Doctrine is concerned with what will happen on the 32nd world-period, and leaves out anything about the intervening world-periods (including our next world-period, which will be the 26th world-period).

The feeling I get from The Secret Doctrine is that the first three world-periods of each Round are only preparation-time, the last three world-periods of each Round are reflection-time, and real work only gets done during the fourth world-period of each Round.

This human life wave has been on this earth chain since the First Round, where we went from earth globe or planet A through G; then the 2nd Round began - from A-G again; then 3rd Round, then the present 4th Round. The globes are all earth globes, realms of matter of differing vibrations. We, during the 4th Round went from earth globe A, to earth globe B, then C and now we are on globe D, the lowest. After moving onward through earth globes E, F & G, we begin a 5th Round, but still on this earth chain of globes.

So there is no real plantary change until after the 7th Round. Previously we were on the Moon chain of globes. What planetary chain we will go to after this Earth I do not know.

Sinnett & Leadbeater (and most of the Adyar folk) misunderstood the globes teaching by thinking the visible planets Mars & Mercury were part of this Earth chain - not so. They belong to their own planetary chains.

Here is the compiler of the Mahatma Letters explaining the blunder of Sinnett et al:

Mars & Mercury

Doesn't The Secret Doctrine say we came from the Moon Chain to the Earth Chain?

Right; here are contrasting views, with the wrong view versus the correct view.

SD vs pseudo-theosophy

Here is an excerpt from a booklet by a student of Judge & Purucker:

Earth Chain etc.

Nicholas,

So it seems we (who are presently the humans) joined this Manvatara on the 4th world-period, are presently on the 25th world-period, and will presumably stay with this Manvantara until the 47th world-period. Does that sound right?

Other wiser heads will have to pin this down.

I believe that this life wave (which is now in human form) has been on the Earth Chain much before this 4th globe.

It also is complicated by the fact that spiritual evolution is not automatic, but "self induced & self devised". After the mid-point of the 5th Round those of us who have become selfless enough, so that our spiritual nature will come to fruition, move on. Those of us who do not fully commit to out True Nature will stagnate spiritually through Rounds 5,6, & 7. The latter group will then, along with the monads that are now in animal, vegetable, mineral & elemental forms, move on to the new planet. Individuals in the former group will be free to leave or stay.

The "new planet" could very well be formed in this same orbit and thus Neo-earth will have two moons. Although the present moon, I think, will not be visible with our present day eyes.

But this technical theosophy was GdP's forte, so I stand under much correction.

Christian,

You said,

"It seems that so much in Theosophy tends to relate to our Solar System (the conventional term) specifically...."

--> It does. The active time period for our solar system will be 311 trillion years. (SD vol II p. 70)

"...I am at odds why in this instance there would be a necessary connection to 1 or more Solar Systems; which could as easily refer to other galaxies or even universes."

--> Blavatsky was very clear in that Theosophy only concerns itself with this Round (308.5 million years), not our entire Manvatara (4.32 billion years) nor the entire active cycle of the Solar System (311 trillion years).


“With these verses [i-6-4] ends that portion of the Stanzas which relates to the Universal Cosmogony after the last Mahapralaya or Universal destruction, which, when it comes, sweeps out of Space every differentiated thing, Gods as atoms, like so many dry leaves. From this verse onwards, the Stanzas are concerned only with our Solar System in general, with the planetary chains therein, inferentially, and with the history of our globe (the 4th and its chain) especially. All the Stanzas and verses which follow in this Book I. refer only to the evolution of, and on, our Earth.” (SD Volume I page 151).


The reason is obvious -- too much information! Due to space limitations, Blavatsky only gave out a small fraction of the total amount of knowledge available. Only the first 42 Slokas in the Stanzas of Dzyan deal with the beginning of the universe. the subsequent 58 Slokas (as stated in the quote) deal with our Solar System, our Round, etc. And the vast majority of those 58 Slokas only deal with our present Earth.

“Among the eleven Stanzas omitted there is one which gives a full description of the formation of the planetary chains one after another....” (SD vol I p. 152)

It is mind-boggling to even consider the full story that Blavatsky could have told. Entire libraries could not have held all of the information.

You said,

"The Trinity and the dhyani-Chohans /Archangels all relate to our seven Planes of Consciousness, which I have come to understand to also mean they apply to our Solar System, but not necessarily the Universe."

--> There is only one Trinity, but there are countless levels of Dhyani-Chohans.

Also, Blavatsky made it clear that we humans will never be able to become conscious on the three uppermost levels of consciousness (Adi, Anupadaka, and Atma) in this universe. However, the Spirit-Guardian of our solar system (that August Being which occupies the center of our Sun) no doubt is conscious at those higher levels.

"Seven Planets also come up throughout Theosophy writings."

--> And one has its own individual Chohan, each one fitting into its place in the huge Hierarchy that covers each level of the universe.

"It seems there would be a clear correspondence."

--> There is.

"I have heard of the moon element a number of times, but didn't know only the Adyar school of thought proffers that view, so will review the links."

--> I think what happened was they tried to simply the story, to make it more understandable. They merely said we came from the Moon, which, technically, is true. The fact that we came from the Moon 21 world-periods ago, not one world-period ago was left out, and I can see why they would do that. (This has left them open to attack by the followers of Mr Judge, as we have seen. Perhaps we will indeed travel to Mercury 22 world-periods from now -- who knows?)

"...one would think there would be an Ancient Wisdom truth to the significance of Astrology and the planets it is based upon."

--> I think all Theosophists would agree with that statement.

"More specifically, my mind tends to want to naturally extrapolate and presume that the planets of our Solar System have a connection to us."

--> They do. They are just parts of different Chains. But ALL of us are key parts of the Hierarchy that is headed by that August Being which occupies the center of our Sun.

"A curious oddity, though, if they do not."

--> The idea that our fellow planets are not connected to us is a very un-Theosophical idea.

"Sort of ties into the Pantheon thing and the Gods connection to planets and corresponding powers, and a presumed subsequent connection to the gods of Theosophy."

--> It does. Blavatsky spends a great deal of time desribing the gods that created humanity. Even the Bible says a group of gods, not a single God, created humanity (something the fundamental Christians wish woud go away....)

"I believe Blavatsky gives considerable play to Zeus/Jupiter."

--> She does.

"The New Age movement seems very keen on the view that Venus was a source of our consciousness before the Moon...."

--> This is a Theosophical teaching.

"...I, for a reason I do not know, have this strong sense that "Jupiter" is a future planet man's consciousness will occupy; again, I don't know where I got that notion. Could be a purely psychic sense."

--> It is entirely within the limits of Theosophical ideas that we may spend some time on Jupiter within the next 311 trillion years.

"...there is the concept of the unmanifested worlds."

--> I wonder if by unmanifest you mean unused. Theosophy teaches us that all of the planets in our Round are presently being used.

"I am wondering if the source of the globes and chains is clearly sufficient to have an understanding of where we are from and where we will ultimately be."

--> It does. The answer is clear.

" Even Nicholas' view leaves us planet-less in the 7th."

--> No. After we finish on Globe G, we will return to Globe A, to begin a subsequent Round. There will be a total of seven journeys around the same Chain, for a total of 49 world-periods.

"...it seems to me if a planet has not manifested by now, it would not be very likely or possible without bringing havoc to the solar system."

--> By manifest, do you mean appear on the Physical Plane? Our Chain contains planets on the Mental Plane, Astral Plane, etc., and they will stay there. They will not "go physical" later.

"That there are planetary logos or gods in the Theosophical teachings seems to support a correspondence, as well."

--> Yes, in the sense that they are all part of a Hierarchy.

"It will be interesting to see if all of this reduces to which schools of thought the information comes from."

--> Ultimately, our information will only come to us from one source -- The Mahatmas, and other Beings higher up the Hierarchy.

"We will always have to reconcile in order to have a position or view, likely depending upon our own draw to Adyar, Judge etc."

--> Fortunately, the day will come when all such discrepancies will be removed. I think that day is closer than we think.

"Are we basically left with the Secret Doctrine, and the Mahatma letters as our sole source of presumed and agreed-upon factual Ancient Wisdom?"

--> Many people are part of the "back to Blavatsky" movement, which throws out everything else. There are others who try to bring in what they can. And (as was already discussed in another thread) we can only wonder what shape the next release of Theosophy will be like, when the Mahatmas release it again.

"Is there none other? Is the well dry? Is there not those who will feel the "nudge" from the Mahatmas, as she expressed? As well, are we not further along in our acceptance, where we may be able to derive insight from other, less direct sources?"

Here is the tread.

http://theosophy-forum.com/index.php?showtopic=106

"Theosophy might be tending toward a dogmatic belief system otherwise."

--> I would predict that Theosophy will develop dogma over the centuries -- just like every other religion started by the Mahatmas. This is the nature of humans to seize power within a religion.

"Since Leadbeater and others claim direct communication with the Mahatmas, are they not due a qualified voice on their new-Theosophical views?"

--> There are those who respect the new ideas, and those who reject the new ideas. This is basic human nature, and will never change.

"It seems that many Theosophists do not feel it is right to sway from, or venture far from, the Secret Doctrine."

--> And I respect that.

"Which is curious, as I always got the impression from Blavatsky's teachings that we were meant to explore, so that we would be ready when the next mysteries were revealed."

--> It has been said that all conservatives worship at the graves of dead liberals. We have to fight, to stop this ossification within Theosophy.

I also never got from my study that Blavatsky thought Theosophy would stop in its content when she went to her grave."

--> She certainly hoped it would not!

"She is the one, If I recall correctly, that stated that when we have to rely on the written word, the philosophy becomes a religion."

--> Our only defense, then, is to study, discuss, question, and evaluate. This is why Theosophy, more than any other belief system, stresses open-mindedness and critical thinking. NOTHING is allowed to be taught as dogma.

"Sorry to go on and on."

--> Not at all. All of your questions and observations strike at the very heart of what Theosophy is about. More! More!

Here is short article by Judge on Rounds & Globes:

http://www.philaletheians.co.uk/Study%20no...of%20Globes.pdf