Nick, I have to be completely honest. I find Leadbeater to be a pedophile and totally wacky and Annie Besant to be superfluous. I have also had bad run-ins with Katinka and Anand Gholap on other sites. I cannot follow the Adyar group at all, and seek something with more of the Judge-Tingley-Purucker-ULT substance in it. For now, at least, unless something changes, I won't be participating for awhile. I have no hard feelings and feel like I am letting you down, but my beliefs must come first. Thanks for letting me Post. I wish you well in the future.

Andrew

Andrew,

Thank you for having spent time here on the Forum. This Forum is dedicated to the idea of bringing all Theosophists together.

This Forum will never be slanted towards any one particular lineage of Theosophy. There will always be a place for you and all other followers of Mr. Judge to discuss Theosophy. Next, time, feel free to share your ideas in the TS-Pasadena and ULT areas, where TS-Adyar influences should not be a problem.

Theosophy should be about ideas, not personalities. Unfortunately, it is not always that way. It has been said that, when person A brings up an idea, it is all hogwash, but when person B brings up the same idea, it is a great revelation. Hopefully, we will get to the point where it is ideas, not personalities, we concentrate on.

Along these lines, I am quite familiar with one tradition within Theosophy, but very unfamiliar with the others. I would like to hear how ideas from one tradition are verified in another. As a matter of fact, this is a very high priority with me. I dream of the day when someone says A's idea is all hogwash, and I can point to B's same idea in print. That will be a great day indeed.

I will be waiting to hear you discuss ideas that Tingley, de Purucker, etc., brought up. That is what we are here for.

Andrew,

Please stay around. Nick & I do 80%? of the posting now, so we need some more regular participants.

I too see little of value in the Adyar lineage, but that is no reason to avoid contact. As long as a theosophist of any stripe is in sympathy with the notion of Universal Brotherhood, that is all that is needed.

Recall what Mr. Judge said when he was being attacked horribly - "Never cast anyone out of your heart."

Christian,

I am beginning to see that it is rare indeed to find a Theosophist who can move beyond their own tradition. Yours is a refreshing if not unusual example. We will be listening to hear how your endeavors go in this direction.

Christian, I think many students share your experience, coming to Theosophy through the writings of Leadbeater/Besant, and I think that's fine. Even if someone stays with those teachings, I think it's better than returning to materialist science or dogmatic religion. There are many paths up to the mountaintop, and one needs not get there tomorrow. Some (all?) of us have spent many lifetimes getting to where we are today, and will spend many more learning and growing.

And Andrew, although I don't condone the behaviors attributed to CWL, I think we can look at his writings with some detachment. See if the writings have some value (see above) apart from the example he set through his actions.

Namaste

Jon

Not much, if any, of Boris de Zirkoff writings are online. But here are some audio files from his classes in the 1950s:

http://www.theosophy.com/boris/archives/private.html

I'm always surprised when it's assumed I'm a Besant/Leadbeater theosophist (though I am admittedly an Adyar theosophist).

Anyhow - I totally agree that there should be room here for different types of theosophists. Also - there haven't been any aggressive run-ins yet, have there? Why leave in anticipation of such troubles, when they may never arrive?

As for Leadbeater: his work on the Chakras is not negated by his lack of self-restraint in his relations with young boys. [to put it very nicely - I don't disagree that he probably went over a few lines in that respect]