Hi,I'm Flavio from Italy.
I hope i will have good conversations with all of you
Greetings

Hi, Flavio, and welcome to the Forum. Are you familiar with Theosophy?

Hello Nick!
i started studying it 2 years ago,so I'm not a great expert,but I've decided to join my country society,and I hope to study a lot in the future

Flavio,

I hope we can have some interesting discusssions about the ideas in Theosophy. I have studied many religions, and, one after another, I have always come across teachings I cannot accept. This has always caused me to quit that particular religion. However, everything I have learned in Theosophy so far makes sense to me.

Have you had the same experience? What ideas in Theosohy do you like or not like?

Have you read any Theosophical books?

Exactly what happened to me in my spiritual quest!I tried to follow various religions,but there was ever something illogical or absurd,so I was often sad,because I was feeling the urge for something spiritual,but I was always discontended!When i started reading theosopy books,I became very happy,to see that religion truths have not to be always illogical or ritualistic.
I read a lot of articles,and now I'm reading again the Secret Doctrine

Ulisse (Flavio),

You are reading the Secret Doctrine? Wow. What an undertaking!

I have spent the last four months studying the Stanzas of Dzyan deeply. I have tried to attach meaning to every word and phrase, and it has been tough going. (I am 99% finished.)

I am presently trying to find equivalents between the different naming systems. I mean, is the Second Logos the same as Mother, Father-Mother, or something else....? I find the different naming systems of Brahmâ, Universal Mind, Son, and Third Logos to be quite confusing.

I am curious to hear how your reading of the SD is coming along. Have you found any difficult passages?

First of all,I realized that you are the owner of the site.It's a great site,very good!
Effectively I have problems with the reading,it's not easy to understand the secret doctrine
The part about the trinity and the three logos is one of the most difficult,I too had problems to understand the meaning.In the past I studied the vedas,and I had problem there too with the concept of the hindu trinity.Do you think we can chare views to understand better the concept?
Hope to hear from you soon!

One of the most beneficial things I learned from Theosophy is that the Trinity exists in all of the major religions.

Here are the equivalents I have come up with.

~~~



Absolute =
Brahma (as opposed to Brahmâ) (Theosophical Glossary, p. 62)
Darkness, Stanza 3-3,
Ever-Darkness, Stanza 4-3,
(Ever) Invisible Robes, Stanza 1-1,
Oeaohoo, Stanza 3-5,
One Form of Existence, Stanza 1-8,
One Reality, SD vol I p. 15
Parabrahm, SD vol I p. 6,
Parabrahman, SD vol I p. 451,
Paranishpanna (Parinishpanna), Stanza 1-6,
Root of Consciousness,
Source,
That, SD vol I p. 7,
Universal Space, Stanza 1-8



Father =
Purusha, SD vol I p.
Spirit, (Stanza 3-10), SD vol I p. 35,
Father, (Stanza 3-6), SD vol I p. 450,
Root of Self (as opposed to Root of Matter),
Silence (as opposed to Sound), (Stanza 2-2),
First Logos



Mother =
Aditi,
Avidya,
Devamatri, Stanza 2-1,
Eternal Parent, Stanza 1-1,
great dark Waters, Stanza 3-7,
Matri-padma (“Mother Lotus”), Stanza 2-3, SD vol I p. 57,
Matrix,
Mother, Stanza 3-6,
Mulaprakriti,
Necessity, from which is born the Universe (Son) Stanza 1-6,
Primordial Matter, SD vol I p. 64
Root of Matter, SD vol I p. 83,
Source of Akasa, SD vol I p. 36
Sound (as opposed to Silence), Stanza 2-2,
Undifferentiated Cosmic matter, SD vol I p. 35
Universal Nature,
Waters (of Chaos, of Life), Stanza 3-2, Stanza 3-6, Stanza 3-7, Stanza 3-9, SD vol I p. 64



Universal Mind, SD vol I p. 110 =
Anima Mundi,
Brahmâ (as opposed to Brahma, no accent)
Bright Space, Son of Dark Space, Stanza 3-7,
Dragon of Wisdom, Stanza 3-7,
Ishvara,
Oeaohoo the Younger, Stanza 3-7,
Son, Stanza 1-5, Stanza 3-8,
Soul of the World,
Varuna, the vedic god,
The Universe, Stanza 1-6, SD vol I p. 41
Third Logos



First Logos = Father

Second Logos = Father-Mother

Third Logos = Universal Mind (Son)


~~~

I would have thought that Mother is the Second Logos, but HPB says Father-Mother is the Second Logos. (SD vol I p. 16)

I have found that keeping track of all these equivalents makes studying the SD a lot easier.

Did I get all of the names in the right place...?

I think you hade the names right.
Is it possible that the second Logos is the union of the Mother/Father,in sense that the first Logos is the Father only,but the union with the Mother,the balance between them,is the second?And their offspring,the Son,is obviously the third Logos.
I think the Second Logos is like the union of Ying and Yang,what do you think?

Yes, I also think the Second Logos is like the union of Ying and Yang.

Here, HPB gives the definition of Spirit-Matter:

"Spirit-matter, LIFE; the 'Spirit of the Universe,' the Purusha and Prakriti, or the second Logos." (SD vol I p. 16)

Another thing about the Second Logos is that it is kind of a "link" between the unmanifest First Logos and the manifest Third Logos:

"This First Point or First Logos does
not come forth into manifestation, hence it
is often referred to as the Unmanifested
Logos. Nevertheless, the potentizing energy
which radiates and emanates from the First
Logos comes forth into manifestation by
means of the Third Logos. Thus it is the
Third Logos which acts as the focus for
the energy and material from which all in
the cosmos evolves and develops. This
energic stimulus is transmitted from the unmanifest
center to the manifest by means of
an intermediary -- which is partially unmanifest
and partially manifest: this is termed
the Second Logos." (Transactions of the Blavatsky Lodge, p. 33)

All of this gets confusing because HPB also says the Second Logos is manifested:

" ... the second Logos (the manifested) ..." (SD vol I p. 447)


The Secret Doctrine certainly gets into interesting concepts such as the Logos. What other Theosophical concepts have you brought into your personal belief system?

It puzzles me too the fact that the second Logos is called manifest
Theosophy has brought very important things in my belief system:it now makes sense to me the destiny that awaits us after death.The notion life-->death-->heaven(or hell) was too simplicistic to me,too absurd to be forced into a heaven or a hell(which one by the way?),without having the chance to reflect on one's life and evolve.The thought of an evolution after death and the theory of reincarnation really make me in peace with the law of the universe.Also,the thought of the Logos,free from absurd human qualities that other traditions give to God,makes perfect sense to me and free us from the fear of a vengeful god.
Do you think is possible to feel some attraction to a certain era or particular landscape/region as result of memories of past lives?Like being able to free the Soul from the Mind even without being a Adept,but only by a particular stimulation?I find it very interesting,like to get a "proof" of our innate immortality even before starting studying theosophy or becoming ad adept.

"It puzzles me too the fact that the second Logos is called manifest."

--> Oh, well, it is fun to try to imagine the different aspects of the Absolute, even when it does not make sense. The one thing we need to do is give HPB credit for having put forward a huge amount of work. When we stop and think about how much she did, it is easy to appreciate how she probably got things mixed up once in a while. When I sit back and look at the sheer amount of information she handled, I am still amazed, even to this day.

"The notion life-->death-->heaven(or hell) was too simplicistic to me...."

--> I agree. The idea that we are slowly evolving, from Elemental to Chohans and beyond (in millions of years?) makes much more sense to me than the idea that we go from nothing to humans to angels (and that is the end of it) in 80 years or less.

"Also,the thought of the Logos, free from absurd human qualities that other traditions give to God,makes perfect sense to me and free us from the fear of a vengeful god."

--> HPB herself pointed out the dangers of anthropomorphizing the Absolute. This is one of the biggest dangers of modern religion, in my opinion. I find the idea of an easily-angered, revenge-seeking God, as portrayed in the Bible, to be particularly unsettling.

"Do you think is possible to feel some attraction to a certain era or particular landscape/region as result of memories of past lives?"

--> Certainly. I speak Japanese well, and native Japanese speakers are always surprised by how good my Japanese language ability is. I have no explanation for such a talent, but there it is. I was told by a psychic one day that I was Japanese in a previous life, and I am "remembering" my language abilities from those days. It makes sense to me!

Theosophy takes credit for popularizing the ideas of karma and reincarnation in the west. Thanks to HPB, these words are now household words in the western world. We owe a huge debt of gratitude to HPB.

"Like being able to free the Soul from the Mind even without being a Adept,but only by a particular stimulation?"

--> I am not sure what you are referring to, but I doubt it. The only path I see to Nirvana is through Initiation. What kind of stimulation do you think could do the trick?

"I find it very interesting,like to get a "proof" of our innate immortality even before starting studying theosophy or becoming ad adept."

--> Again, I am not sure what you are referring to, but HPB dedicated her life to explaining how Theosophy makes complete sense, and nothing else does. I agree with such an idea. What would you consider "proof" of our innate immortality?

--> Oh, well, it is fun to try to imagine the different aspects of the Absolute, even when it does not make sense. The one thing we need to do is give HPB credit for having put forward a huge amount of work. When we stop and think about how much she did, it is easy to appreciate how she probably got things mixed up once in a while. When I sit back and look at the sheer amount of information she handled, I am still amazed, even to this day.

That's true,she gave us so many notions and she brought the eastern secrets to the West


--> I agree. The idea that we are slowly evolving, from Elemental to Chohans and beyond (in millions of years?) makes much more sense to me than the idea that we go from nothing to humans to angels (and that is the end of it) in 80 years or less.

That's exactly what I'm thinking,how could we evolve spiritually and enter Heaven or Hell in 80 or less years?life is too full of problems and daily worries,in the past even more than now,to be possible to fullfill our spiritual destiny in such a short lenght of time


"Do you think is possible to feel some attraction to a certain era or particular landscape/region as result of memories of past lives?"

--> Certainly. I speak Japanese well, and native Japanese speakers are always surprised by how good my Japanese language ability is. I have no explanation for such a talent, but there it is. I was told by a psychic one day that I was Japanese in a previous life, and I am "remembering" my language abilities from those days. It makes sense to me!

Theosophy takes credit for popularizing the ideas of karma and reincarnation in the west. Thanks to HPB, these words are now household words in the western world. We owe a huge debt of gratitude to HPB.



--> I am not sure what you are referring to, but I doubt it. The only path I see to Nirvana is through Initiation. What kind of stimulation do you think could do the trick?
--> Again, I am not sure what you are referring to, but HPB dedicated her life to explaining how Theosophy makes complete sense, and nothing else does. I agree with such an idea. What would you consider "proof" of our innate immortality?

I was referring to remembering past lives,sorry I couldn't express it good in english.I was talking about the fact that we can remember past lives and we have spiritual memories,even if one has never heard of theosophy,so that's a proof that reincarnation exists and our Soul can manifest his memories over the Mind,so our past lives leave a mark even if someone doesn't believe in reincarnation or in eternal Soul(again sorry for my english,I can't explain well this concept).

Flavio,

I am sorry I misunderstood. Now I understand. You are referring to past-live connections, feelings and memories to "prove" that reincarnation happens. Yes, that is a good way to do it. As I said, the only way to explain my Japanese language ability is to consider that I had a past-life in Japan


You said,

"I can't explain well this concept."

--> No, I understand now.

You may want to take a look at the Reincarnation Forum. I am active there, using the username Buntaro.

http://www.childpastlives.org/vBulletin/index.php

Thanks for the link,I'm registering now

Flavio,

I am curious to hear what you think of the Reincarnation Forum.

Do you have a particular place or time that you are attracted to, a place that you might have reincarnated at, in the past?

I remember that when I was a child I knew every square roots of numbers,and I amazed a friend of my parents(a doctor),but after some years I forgot everything,in fact my votes in mathematics decreased with the years.My father always remember me of my ability in mathematics,and I sincerely have no normal explanation for my abilities,also because I don't like mathematics.
I feel also attracted to northern europe and greenland in particular,when I see a documentary about it I feel like I am connected to the greenland landscapes and traditions.
The forum is very good,I will post in it soon,I think about my child ability with numbers